Calling roll in champ select means ****!

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Wyndrydyr

Senior Member

08-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Is Whoa View Post
Thats interesting because i clearly stated that you should join and say what your bad at. And previous posts by me clearly state team communication and trading.
And yet you seem to firmly believe that random pick order trumps communication, which I wholeheartedly disagree with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Is Whoa View Post
So before you try to belittle someone get your facts straight.
Man. And here I went my entire life not realizing that disagreeing with someone is the same as belittling them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Is Whoa View Post
The only point i made continuously is that last pick doesnt get free reign of what he plays.

If you say top as last pick and someone above you says top after you lost your position top. Its at this point you can petition for the role but if its taken its your responsibility to not rage and fill a diff role.
That's completely arbitrary, as pick order is random. Saying that random pick essentially gives you more power over the game and what you want to play is hardly fair. Dealing with ranked especially - let's say someone has a ridiculously low ELO. The theoretically lowest ELO player that there is. No one is lower. They can play any position, but they really like mid. Unfortunately, since lots of people like mid and they are the lowest ELO, they are ALWAYS last pick. They never ever get to play what they want. That's fair?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Is Whoa View Post
The only way to get better at a role is to play it and take constructive criticism.
I don't see how this applies to the current discussion.


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Wyndrydyr

Senior Member

08-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheapo5020 View Post
This also reveals the problem with role calling. S1 pretty much just got bullied into support because he was the last person to type anything in chat (or just didn't bother, or thinks role calling is stupid if it can strip his preference away as first pick). S2, also a high pick, probably got kicked out of his desired role too, and possibly S5 too.
There's never any real way to tell unless they something. They went along with it without complaint, so I don't see a ton of problem. I've done the same thing and had perfectly acceptable games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheapo5020 View Post
The worst part about this is that first pick who ignored the calling is now the bad guy for taking what he wants when the rest of his team treats him like **** during champion select. They got what they had coming.
Of course he's getting treated like ****. Failure to Communicate with Team is a reportable offense. Getting a lucky first pick doesn't entitle you to anything.


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Cheap0

Senior Member

08-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyndrydyr View Post
There's never any real way to tell unless they something. They went along with it without complaint, so I don't see a ton of problem. I've done the same thing and had perfectly acceptable games.
S3: Top
S4: Mid
S2: ill adc then
S5: I can jungle
S1: Sorry dude, I'm going to mid
S4: No, I'm mid, I called it
S1: I want to play mid too, and I'm first pick
S4: AFDJSKAORIOEUWAF I'm going mid anyway

Keep in mind that calling roles out usually happens pretty early on in champion select, so someone can quickly be bullied into support before they say anything at all.

Quote:
Of course he's getting treated like ****. Failure to Communicate with Team is a reportable offense. Getting a lucky first pick doesn't entitle you to anything.
Last I recall, Summoner's Code says that later picks should choose around the champions already picked. If later picks are unwilling to work around the earlier picks, then I'd say that's a more reasonable report, as opposed to making not calling your role a reportable offense.

On top of that, a "lucky" first pick is a fair first pick, because it's random. I have just as much of a chance at an early pick as you do, and over the course of many games, probability evens out so everyone has equal chance at all the picks. It's far more fair than awarding preference to whoever mashes their keyboard the fastest upon champ select screen loading. S4 probably gets mid almost every game if he's quick.

I'm not opposed to communication, but I'm opposed to entitlement from calling. There's so much risk of trolling that defying someone's call is actually dangerous. If saying "mid" first in champ select meant "I'd like mid" rather than "I WILL BE MID, WHATEVER YOU SAY", then calling would be more reasonable.

EDIT: To clarify, in ranked games, picking order isn't random, but the people you're matched up with mostly is, so their's still a random chance you'll be matched up with higher or lower elo players. In the case of player that's so low elo that he's last pick every time...that's incredibly rare, and pretty much negligible as far as this discussion goes. Said player could win a single game then not be the lowest elo player ever.


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Wyndrydyr

Senior Member

08-15-2012

Before I start this: thank you for being reasonable and talking like a rational person. It's appreciated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheapo5020 View Post
S3: Top
S4: Mid
S2: ill adc then
S5: I can jungle
S1: Sorry dude, I'm going to mid
S4: No, I'm mid, I called it
S1: I want to play mid too, and I'm first pick
S4: AFDJSKAORIOEUWAF I'm going mid anyway

Keep in mind that calling roles out usually happens pretty early on in champion select, so someone can quickly be bullied into support before they say anything at all.

Last I recall, Summoner's Code says that later picks should choose around the champions already picked. If later picks are unwilling to work around the earlier picks, then I'd say that's a more reasonable report, as opposed to making not calling your role a reportable offense.
That's something that I disagree with in general, but in all honesty it's vague enough that I can see your point at the very least. In your scenario, I'd be inclined to already hate both players - S1 for picking mid first and opening himself to being countered, as well as disregarding S4...and S4 for immediately raging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheapo5020 View Post
On top of that, a "lucky" first pick is a fair first pick, because it's random. I have just as much of a chance at an early pick as you do, and over the course of many games, probability evens out so everyone has equal chance at all the picks. It's far more fair than awarding preference to whoever mashes their keyboard the fastest upon champ select screen loading. S4 probably gets mid almost every game if he's quick.

I'm not opposed to communication, but I'm opposed to entitlement from calling. There's so much risk of trolling that defying someone's call is actually dangerous. If saying "mid" first in champ select meant "I'd like mid" rather than "I WILL BE MID, WHATEVER YOU SAY", then calling would be more reasonable.
And that's the thing. I'm opposed to entitlement from pick order. Any kind of entitlement at all. I really, really, sincerely wish that there was a way to setup the queue so people could select their preferences BEFORE the game in some way.

Because as far as I'm concerned, pick order exists solely to give you the opportunity to counter the enemy - not as a deciding factor in which players get to play what they want and which ones get screwed. I don't really like 'calling' as a system as a whole...I just happen to favor it a lot higher than just letting pick order decide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheapo5020 View Post
EDIT: To clarify, in ranked games, picking order isn't random, but the people you're matched up with mostly is, so their's still a random chance you'll be matched up with higher or lower elo players. In the case of player that's so low elo that he's last pick every time...that's incredibly rare, and pretty much negligible as far as this discussion goes. Said player could win a single game then not be the lowest elo player ever.
Fair enough.

Again - I found a post earlier today going into elaborate detail about a lobby system that would let people work out roles and talk to their teammates before actually entering champ select. It was GLORIOUS. The opportunity to simply leave the lobby at no penalty to anyone would make dodging trolls and raging idiots much...much easier.


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Sam Is Whoa

Senior Member

08-15-2012

I figured it out. None of you can read. In many many posts i have stated my opinion is for ranked games. So all of you idiots who say pick order is random stop posting. Pick order is by elo not random. You last pick? You have the lowest elo. And riot says last pick fills a role, not me. So rage at riot if you dont like the rules.


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Cheap0

Senior Member

08-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Is Whoa View Post
I figured it out. None of you can read. In many many posts i have stated my opinion is for ranked games. So all of you idiots who say pick order is random stop posting. Pick order is by elo not random. You last pick? You have the lowest elo. And riot says last pick fills a role, not me. So rage at riot if you dont like the rules.
Elo isn't random, but the players you're playing with are. There's just as good a chance that you'll be the highest Elo on your team as the lowest. So yes, picking order is random.


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Cheap0

Senior Member

08-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyndrydyr View Post
Again - I found a post earlier today going into elaborate detail about a lobby system that would let people work out roles and talk to their teammates before actually entering champ select. It was GLORIOUS. The opportunity to simply leave the lobby at no penalty to anyone would make dodging trolls and raging idiots much...much easier.
A pregame lobby would be pretty cool. As it stands now, we're basically disagreeing on what we think is the lesser of two evils.


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Goozik

Member

08-15-2012

Calling it does not mean it's yours. Something to many in game don't realize or accept.
There is a draft order where teams take turns. This means you can strategically pick as the other teams picks are revealed. When you can make a profitable pick for your team, you should make it.

As for people that take the I called it, it's mine and even if the role is filled I'm taking it so just deal with two in mid. Just report them.
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...3#post20590763


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Technician Tim

Senior Member

08-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Contesso View Post
i will say that if i call a role im going to play it weather someone is before me or not. and i will make that clear.

Me: Top
Them: Im top im before you
Me: im Going top regardless of who you pick
-They choose a different role-
people like u suck, the reason youre lower in the pick is because youre ranked lower, the higher ranked people should have pick, id rather have the 1100 guy doing my mid carry than the 1010 guy in 5th..


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Sam Is Whoa

Senior Member

08-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheapo5020 View Post
Elo isn't random, but the players you're playing with are. There's just as good a chance that you'll be the highest Elo on your team as the lowest. So yes, picking order is random.
Your really reaching to make your point. This is not even a question or argument because there is documented proof and a written rule. Stating last pick fills. There is later statements giving room for bad players to try and lobby for a position they want. The last statement in rule 1 of the SC says, playing new roles will help you learn and play better. So all you have to do is accept word as law since you signed it saying you will follow all the rules. No argument for the other side.

Communication is key if you want a diff role. Otherwise suck it up and fill a role your team needs. You wont be last pick every time.