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Running Garen Numbers on PBE

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Rythless

Senior Member

08-11-2012

Quote:
Prometheius:
Trash build. Right. Build I pulled straight from most recent SoloMid guide on Garen is trash. Okay.


The most recent guide on Solomid from an actual top lane professional, is over a year old...

add to that it's from Westrice lol


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CLG HotdogGG

Senior Member

08-11-2012

You nerfed Double Stack Garen.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2020148

Literally no reason to play him anymore.


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Wolfalisk

Member

08-11-2012

Quote:
UsoRemix:
how about having no mana limitations? -.-


Darius does not have mana limitations.


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Killrazor

Senior Member

08-11-2012

garen was weak to begin with... so you just shuffled the damage around a bit, and nerfed his early game?

I will wait and see for when he gets these changes released, but if it is anything like the twitch or eve remakes, then he will be very underpowered. Not expecting much though, as garen is tough champ to balance.

But garen will always be a pubstomping champ, and will never be used in high level play much it seems. Would be nice to see some different champs in tourneys, instead of the same 10-20 or so.


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Loveshockk

Senior Member

08-11-2012

Lol this thread is so AWESOME. It's not often you see 9/10 people completely bashing a "buff".








Usually its around 6/10








These Red responses are pretty lawlzy too.


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Noraver

Senior Member

08-11-2012

Quote:
Xypherous:
...your infinity edge critical strikes now also critically strike off your base AD as well - which means that at level 9, your infinity edge critical strike is not only multiplying the 80 damage but also the 90 base damage that you have in the ratio...


Infinity Edge by level 9 on a Garen who's early-game you nerfed.
Totally.


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CLG HotdogGG

Senior Member

08-11-2012

Quote:
UsoRemix:
how about having no mana limitations? -.- people always compare darius to garen w/o reminding themselves one has mana and the other doesn't. If you want Riot to give Garen as much damage as Darius has, Riot will slap on a resource bar for Garen. Its that simple.

Darius has mana? 0_0

I honestly couldn't tell with how minuscule his mana costs are.


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Vahlen

Senior Member

08-11-2012

Quote:
Xypherous:
Yes - this is absolutely true. A cursory glance at 1.1 total AD vs. 1.4 bonus AD would've been sufficient to tell you that.

The problem we identified wasn't that Garen couldn't build damage and get damage out in the late game sense - but that he had to walk an incredibly fine line between building offense and defense in order to do so. On live, a Garen with IE/Atma's/Youmu's/etc. would deal an amazing amount of AoE damage and utterly blow up as soon as something touched them.

In short - it's not that he couldn't built glass cannon and deal a million damage - it's how practical building damage items was in the first place given how you exploded. Hence the 'W' changes to enable to him to need fewer resistances to actually go out and do his thing.


Sorry Xyph, normally I love your champion and rebuild ideas...........but you fubar'd thise one pretty bad. You castrated Garens early-mid game advantage while slightly buffing his non-existent late game, the logic behind that evades me at the moment........


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Neko tan

Senior Member

08-11-2012

Quote:
hashinshin:
You SAY you want to make him competitive, but all I HEAR is "we want to nerf his pubstomping." Where exactly does the competitive stuff come in? Are we going to log in on patch day and find out SURPRISE, JUDGMENT NOW HAS A 2.0 AD RATIO NOT A 1.1 AD RATIO!

All I hear is 5 nerfs to reduce his pub stomping, a nerf to his late game, and a SINGLE TINY BUFF to that exact moment in time when Garen has a sunfire cape at 15 minutes.

Atma's got nerfed. This is a reality. The item that used to make Garen somewhat tolerable is no longer a viable item. He went from meh to super meh. You are now buff-nerfing a super meh character.


Can't carry hashinshin ITT.


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Karn Bishop

Senior Member

08-11-2012

Quote:
Xypherous:
Potentially, depending on how frequently the critical strike proc works - if you get absolutely zero critical strikes on the ability - this will be true just due to raw damage calculations.

However, the thing about Infinity Edge and Judgment interaction works is because Judgment only did critical bonus damage on the bonus portion of the ability, your infinity edge critical strike could only deal critical bonus damage off the 80 damage from Infinity Edge.

However, with total AD ratios and Infinity Edge - your infinity edge critical strikes now also critically strike off the total AD factor as well - which means that at level 9, your infinity edge critical strike is not only multiplying the 80 damage but also the 90 base damage that you have in the ratio - thus the critical portion of the ability can now multiply the 170 damage in the ratio as well - making the critical strike portion far more effective than before.


Doesn't this damage calculation also assume that his spin is landing to deal said proc damage? garen is just plain slower now then he was before and as a result just can't keep up with enemys to even do damage, maybe this is where the damage misconception is coming from after all you used to be able to put 1 point into Q and get full speed duration then you could max E for the damage and constantly apply damage unfortunately you just can't do that anymore due to how Q changed so as a result you need to actually max Q first which deprives you of your damage on level up from E so in turn it means no lane bullying for garen which means garen is zoned out hard.