Champion Relaunch: Katarina, the Sinister Blade

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trex5005

Senior Member

08-16-2012

Overall a good job on kat remake. only problems are her early game still sucks, which is what you said you were trying to fix , and her passive was over nerfed, id bring back the gold bonus but keep the cd refresh at 10 still. I do like the shorter ult and new w, I'm overall satusfied


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Rhonin Greymane

Senior Member

08-16-2012

It's easy to rework any hero into something generic that works and have it work. In fact, generic will always work better.

They removed old Kat's massive damage and gave her pushing power to compensate for it and put her on par with other pushers. The consequence of that is that she's not really Kat anymore.

Riot has no insight into Katarina what so ever. Her ultimate isn't her defining trait. It was her instant high-damage shunpo that made her... well, Katarina. It was that skill that made her scary as she was. This rework is even more ultimate-centric than the one before, despite Riot claiming it to be otherwise, and DESPITE needing 1150 AP to compensate for the damage on your ultimate you lost. Not to mention her destroyed laning phase. She got no harass at all. The damage from the bounces is completely negligible, and she cannot trade effectively with most mid laners anymore. The crappy one second movements speed doesn't make up for the sheer chasing power lost from having your shunpo on a 6 second cooldown.

The healing reduction on her ultimate is useless as well. Having it on her Q made it a viable early game skill. Now it's completely useless. The mark system just made her predictable, dull and linear. Don't tell me you'll be able to harass by popping the marks, because after one or two times, if your opponent has any competence whatsoever, they won't let you pop it again. And if you try so, you'll be left open for ganks with no means of escaping. You took the only two reasons her Q was viable and completely ruined it. The bleed debuff gave Katarina what little control she had in lane over several champions. Saying this was too powerful I expect that Tristana will soon have the same debuff taken from her E and applied to her R. The bounce max is not compensation for the damage nerf no matter how you try to spin it either. The copious amount of problems with what you've done to Death Lotus... I almost guarantee you that you will find less than a dozen examples out of 100 games where that wound debuff is at all worth while. You know where it would be worth while? Back on her Q during the Laning phase

This only scrapes the tip of the iceberg of how this remake ruined Kat and made her into a boring and generic pusher, and I just don't have the energy to repeat long and well structured posts anymore after days upon days of fruitless fighting for Riot to finally listen to the feedback of the vast majority of Kat players. No one who knows how to play her wants this remake. She didn't need a remake. She was perfectly fine. She just needed a remodel. We wanted only that.

The only people who like the change are people who didn't know how to play Kat properly in the first place, and thought W was an useless skill because it didn't deal instant damage on target or stun for 10 minutes. Her old W was a core part of her gameplay and even passively added huge damage to her other abilities, especially around 500 damage to a fully channeled ultimate.

But just wait, people who endorse this. Just wait a week or two when you try her, and find out that you can't just mash all buttons, deal insane damage, and kill someone any more than you could before the remake. Just wait until you see that the spotlight was staged to cast her in a positive light. You'll be complaining about how much she sucks again in no time.

I don't care about how she's 'not bad' now. (Eventhough she is.)

I don't care about how good she might be in the jungle. That's irrelevant.

The problem is that they changed a highly opportunistic, risky, midlaner assassin duelist, with great mindgames into a mish-mesh of a W spamming, mindless, sustained damage 'bruiser', with a predictable mark system, which has lower damage than ever, and a ****ty joke.

Honestly I don't think I've been more disappointed in RIOT as a company than I am at this point. They've taken a champion that they've used several times as a trade mark champion and just made her worthless. Telling me she can jungle now is frankly an insult. This may come as a shock to Phreak, but not every champion should have a jungle kit. And the fact that they completely ignored and disregarded all the input and feedback and criticism from hundreds of Katarina player and stubbornly went through with this only saddens me further.

I know that "Mark" style abilities are the new flavor of the month around the office so I don't blame you guys for just tossing it on her while you were "reworking" her. You're consistent in your blandness when it comes to kits so I suppose I shouldn't be entirely shocked here. But what you've done is not a rework. What you've done is create an entirely different champion, and it's a very unimpressive, low scale, high risk minuscule reward, lobotomized AP assassin.

But you know what? I'ts all okay... Everything's going to be just fine... Because Phreak be praised, she can jungle now. Because everyone's always wanted the option to have their AP mid jungle! I don't know what the infatuation is with this but I think its just because Phreak prefers the jungle and well we should all strive to be just like him. So every nerf and the entire bag of hot garbage that is this "rework" is completely okay. Because now, we can Jungle!

Riot, making mistakes is natural. Everybody makes mistakes. And no one, not an individual, or a company like you, can grow and better themselves and learn from their mistakes without accepting constructive criticism and acknowledging those mistakes. I know that despite how bad it is, a lot of effort went into this remake, and that you don't want it going to waste. But by alienating everyone who played and loved the old Katarina will make much more go to waste for you. Accept that, and learn from it, for better future remakes. Implementing it despite the wishes of the majority of the community that can form a coherent sentence is really the worst possible course of action you could have taken.


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Bigg B89

Junior Member

08-16-2012

I only wanted the remodel, I'm serious going to miss the old Kat. I don't really like the changes made to Nerf Kat this hard makes no sense. Kat is an assassin/ AP carry how can you neutralize the abilities that made her exactly what they originally wanted her to be. Riot, I understand the need to improve characters in-game and mistakes will be made and you put a lot of time and effort into this remake. But can the changes to the abilities benefit the Katarina players, it took a lot of skill to master Kat but to make her Ult reliant. please Riot I implore you bring the old Kat back for the fellow Katarina players and myself


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The Magic Lizard

Junior Member

08-16-2012

Leave the model rework, or rather i don't even care because I personally loved the old Kat. But change her skills back, she was fine. It was fun to play her, now it's just farm until teamfights and hope for the best, i can no longer gank bot because my ult lasts a second less and i rarely get a kill. Also the sound. Terrible sound rework, she sounded like she was throwing blades before and using her shunpo. Now is she breaking glass?


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The Magic Lizard

Junior Member

08-16-2012

Why do people pick Ashe over Graves? If they want her ult for initiation. But it can miss. It can be blocked, it can be cleansed or QSS'd. This doesn't mean that Ashe is a flawed character and needs to be remade.

And further, while you may be the lead designer at Riot, who are you to tell me what I enjoy and find fun about a character? Frankly an AoE burst of damage? Hrm, how many other mages/assassins can I play and get the same thing? Quite a few. passive damage, bonus gold for kills or assists, rewarding decision making for what ability to buff with KI... yeah, I found that fun. (so did i)

tl;dr Taking quotes out of context is poor practice, and I don't want everything + more, I want you to quite removing the fun aspects of champions when you try to 'fix' them.


~~ simply agreed. no disrespect, but she did not need a rework in my OPINION...What were you trying to fix? Her Q obviously wasn't fixed if you state it used to do no damage early and scaled better late. It does even less damage now. Same for shunpo, making her even more reliant on ult. i guess she has her w now, better teamfights makes up for losing lane even harder. It was easy to sit back and farm with her and wait for a gank, or try to harass with q until u could go all in. Now the Q is not random, so you basically can't kill your opponent in lane 1v1 anymore.


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QuickLobster

Junior Member

08-16-2012

Champion was already amazing. No reason to remake her. What a ****ing waste of time to make a champion OP. gj


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Cappo

Junior Member

08-17-2012

The only reason I ever spent money or even played this game was because of Katarina, I own all her skins(Kitty Kat included) and whatever else I could buy with RP and my Credit Card now I feel cheated like it was all just a big waste. I've averaged 9.4/6.3/6.7 a game(RANKED) I've gone 34 kills, I have 8 Pentas 68 Quads 340 Trippe kills 1900 double kills I've won games 4V5(4 on my team) in RANKED because of KAT (the old KAT), this new KAT feels more like a support id be lucky to get 1 (ONE) kill per game. I thought the point of a buff was to improve on the existing abilities of that champion and not remove all the skills and abilities that makes him/ her unique. If I wanted to play a pusher id play a pusher. I'm sure i'm not the only one that feels this way. I' m not going to say a lot more about this because Riot doesn't care about its users and this will fall on deaf ears and get buried in the forum cemetery. Point here is that the new rework of KAT is the worst rework I've ever seen, it was absolutely pointless renders KAT absolutely useless. How about keeping what was there before giving her some cc that would make much more sense its that simple make this useless sinister steel into a stun. anyway I wont be supporting a company that doesn't care about its clients. first rule of business your customers needs comes first. Wont be playing this game anymore.


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bloodmagew

Junior Member

08-17-2012

one question Riot...


WHY?!?!?!?!?

=,(


R.I.P. katarina


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Tahlyn

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Member

08-18-2012

Now that I've played a few games as the new kat....
I've never badmouthed riot before. Not once.

Until now. Thx Riot for ruining my favorite hero. Kat is effing Dead now. Completely flacid. Awesome. Thx again. You took my favorite hero, and turned her into off-brand deodorant.

F*ck you for ruining the Only hero I've bought Every Single Skin for, because I wanted to support the company. I will never spend another Single dollar on this game.


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Tahlyn

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Member

08-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhonin Greymane View Post
It's easy to rework any hero into something generic that works and have it work. In fact, generic will always work better.

They removed old Kat's massive damage and gave her pushing power to compensate for it and put her on par with other pushers. The consequence of that is that she's not really Kat anymore.

Riot has no insight into Katarina what so ever. Her ultimate isn't her defining trait. It was her instant high-damage shunpo that made her... well, Katarina. It was that skill that made her scary as she was. This rework is even more ultimate-centric than the one before, despite Riot claiming it to be otherwise, and DESPITE needing 1150 AP to compensate for the damage on your ultimate you lost. Not to mention her destroyed laning phase. She got no harass at all. The damage from the bounces is completely negligible, and she cannot trade effectively with most mid laners anymore. The crappy one second movements speed doesn't make up for the sheer chasing power lost from having your shunpo on a 6 second cooldown.

The healing reduction on her ultimate is useless as well. Having it on her Q made it a viable early game skill. Now it's completely useless. The mark system just made her predictable, dull and linear. Don't tell me you'll be able to harass by popping the marks, because after one or two times, if your opponent has any competence whatsoever, they won't let you pop it again. And if you try so, you'll be left open for ganks with no means of escaping. You took the only two reasons her Q was viable and completely ruined it. The bleed debuff gave Katarina what little control she had in lane over several champions. Saying this was too powerful I expect that Tristana will soon have the same debuff taken from her E and applied to her R. The bounce max is not compensation for the damage nerf no matter how you try to spin it either. The copious amount of problems with what you've done to Death Lotus... I almost guarantee you that you will find less than a dozen examples out of 100 games where that wound debuff is at all worth while. You know where it would be worth while? Back on her Q during the Laning phase

This only scrapes the tip of the iceberg of how this remake ruined Kat and made her into a boring and generic pusher, and I just don't have the energy to repeat long and well structured posts anymore after days upon days of fruitless fighting for Riot to finally listen to the feedback of the vast majority of Kat players. No one who knows how to play her wants this remake. She didn't need a remake. She was perfectly fine. She just needed a remodel. We wanted only that.

The only people who like the change are people who didn't know how to play Kat properly in the first place, and thought W was an useless skill because it didn't deal instant damage on target or stun for 10 minutes. Her old W was a core part of her gameplay and even passively added huge damage to her other abilities, especially around 500 damage to a fully channeled ultimate.

But just wait, people who endorse this. Just wait a week or two when you try her, and find out that you can't just mash all buttons, deal insane damage, and kill someone any more than you could before the remake. Just wait until you see that the spotlight was staged to cast her in a positive light. You'll be complaining about how much she sucks again in no time.

I don't care about how she's 'not bad' now. (Eventhough she is.)

I don't care about how good she might be in the jungle. That's irrelevant.

The problem is that they changed a highly opportunistic, risky, midlaner assassin duelist, with great mindgames into a mish-mesh of a W spamming, mindless, sustained damage 'bruiser', with a predictable mark system, which has lower damage than ever, and a ****ty joke.

Honestly I don't think I've been more disappointed in RIOT as a company than I am at this point. They've taken a champion that they've used several times as a trade mark champion and just made her worthless. Telling me she can jungle now is frankly an insult. This may come as a shock to Phreak, but not every champion should have a jungle kit. And the fact that they completely ignored and disregarded all the input and feedback and criticism from hundreds of Katarina player and stubbornly went through with this only saddens me further.

I know that "Mark" style abilities are the new flavor of the month around the office so I don't blame you guys for just tossing it on her while you were "reworking" her. You're consistent in your blandness when it comes to kits so I suppose I shouldn't be entirely shocked here. But what you've done is not a rework. What you've done is create an entirely different champion, and it's a very unimpressive, low scale, high risk minuscule reward, lobotomized AP assassin.

But you know what? I'ts all okay... Everything's going to be just fine... Because Phreak be praised, she can jungle now. Because everyone's always wanted the option to have their AP mid jungle! I don't know what the infatuation is with this but I think its just because Phreak prefers the jungle and well we should all strive to be just like him. So every nerf and the entire bag of hot garbage that is this "rework" is completely okay. Because now, we can Jungle!

Riot, making mistakes is natural. Everybody makes mistakes. And no one, not an individual, or a company like you, can grow and better themselves and learn from their mistakes without accepting constructive criticism and acknowledging those mistakes. I know that despite how bad it is, a lot of effort went into this remake, and that you don't want it going to waste. But by alienating everyone who played and loved the old Katarina will make much more go to waste for you. Accept that, and learn from it, for better future remakes. Implementing it despite the wishes of the majority of the community that can form a coherent sentence is really the worst possible course of action you could have taken.
I wish i could like this a thousand times to get it seen more. I couldn't agree more.