if you need advice from a 2k elo player about anything in LoL

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Hirumonogatari

Senior Member

02-20-2013

what should you do as the support if the adc is incompetant?

i've had a couple of games where the adc just can't cs (70~cs by 23 minutes) or just cant position themselves resulting in something like 2/8 by 15 minutes. never mind that i don't get thanks for any assists or plays (this is solo queue after all) but i feel really useless and helpless all throughout laning phase when i get paired with such a lane partner.

when teamfight phase comes (assuming all lanes haven't been terrible, which seems to be a 50/50 chance too) i know the conventional wisdom is to protect whoever's the most valuable if the adc derps. but by then if they have a fed enemy adc and can protect them, they've pretty much won the game by default. it's hard to do much going up against a 10-kill adc with 150 cs, especially if they have an aoe ult like MF.

i only play normals, but i think the same is probably happening in ranked, so was hoping oyu'd have some suggestions about what to do in this case.


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Qsario

Senior Member

02-20-2013

I'm nowhere near as good as Cardboardowl, but I am a support main. You have two problems: keep the ADC from feeding and support your team's biggest threat.

For the first problem, you want a support with good CC. This is why I love Janna so much. Tornadoes go a long way towards keeping bad ADCs from being feeders, but any support with good CC can do this, like Lulu & Zyra. In lane, I focus on keeping them alive, which is a lot harder than it sounds sometimes. Be sure to ward properly, ping when you see threats, call MIAs (for _all_lanes, if need be, not just bot lane), time wards, ping ward locations, time dragon, etc. Yeah, it's a lot of work, but you're one of two people not focused on last hitting, so you have more time. Vs. kill lanes, be sure to position properly and save your CC. Also, ward up those side bushes. I don't ADC much, but I was about to tear my hair out the other day when I played Ez and Nami made me buy the wards vs. Blitz. I couldn't E out of the grab to save my life (and believe me, I tried).

You already know the other half: when teamfights come, focus on keeping your biggest threat alive. You might want to think about your item builds and what utility items you need the most. You should be thinking about this way back during the loading screen, as to what items are worth considering, then prioritize them according to which enemies are the big threats.


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Hirumonogatari

Senior Member

02-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qsario View Post
I'm nowhere near as good as Cardboardowl, but I am a support main. You have two problems: keep the ADC from feeding and support your team's biggest threat.

For the first problem, you want a support with good CC. This is why I love Janna so much. Tornadoes go a long way towards keeping bad ADCs from being feeders, but any support with good CC can do this, like Lulu & Zyra. In lane, I focus on keeping them alive, which is a lot harder than it sounds sometimes. Be sure to ward properly, ping when you see threats, call MIAs (for _all_lanes, if need be, not just bot lane), time wards, ping ward locations, time dragon, etc. Yeah, it's a lot of work, but you're one of two people not focused on last hitting, so you have more time. Vs. kill lanes, be sure to position properly and save your CC. Also, ward up those side bushes. I don't ADC much, but I was about to tear my hair out the other day when I played Ez and Nami made me buy the wards vs. Blitz. I couldn't E out of the grab to save my life (and believe me, I tried).

You already know the other half: when teamfights come, focus on keeping your biggest threat alive. You might want to think about your item builds and what utility items you need the most. You should be thinking about this way back during the loading screen, as to what items are worth considering, then prioritize them according to which enemies are the big threats.
i'm not too sure about items, as i usually only have enough for a philo, a ruby sightstone and wards. maybe if late late game rolls around i'll have enough for something else, but that's what i usually end up running by the time the 25minute mark rolls around.

and retreat pings work? ive been spamming them but they still charge in and ask how come i didn't go in with them.

of course side bushes are warded. they're always warded and i even bring a pink or two in lane to counter ward if its a bush to contest, or to ward the river so jungler can gank.


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Qsario

Senior Member

02-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSZHUNG View Post
i'm not too sure about items, as i usually only have enough for a philo, a ruby sightstone and wards. maybe if late late game rolls around i'll have enough for something else, but that's what i usually end up running by the time the 25minute mark rolls around.

and retreat pings work? ive been spamming them but they still charge in and ask how come i didn't go in with them.

of course side bushes are warded. they're always warded and i even bring a pink or two in lane to counter ward if its a bush to contest, or to ward the river so jungler can gank.
Good to hear that about wards. The last person I had call support didn't even buy one I let them have the role, even though I suck at ADC, to encourage people to support.

It sounds like you have money issues then. How much GP10 do you get from your rune page? You have GP10 quints, right? I hit about 3 GP10 unless there are special considerations (e.g. Janna loves a couple MS quints to just run circles around people even with boots as 3rd-4th item).

On item order, I start the old way again (damned flask nerf): faerie+wards+pots, rush SS (buy ruby + wards if you have to first back), finish philo & go from there. Early HP is very helpful. 180 HP when you have ~800 is pretty huge, so don't underestimate that. There may be other supports who can get away with other item orders, but I think this works for most. I think cardboardowl has written a fair bit about support items a few pages back, too. On anything but a rather short game, you should probably have enough gold to finish at least one 'real' item beyond boots/SS/philo.

Also, farm assists for gold. You should do your best to do *something* in every kill, even if it seems relatively pointless, like shielding the person (N.B.: for Janna, this is *not* pointless, given that the shield is also a damage buff and should be used as one). Also, did you know that bonuses (and assists) are calculated when the shot lands? Think about what that means if you buff someone like Ez or Ashe while their ult is flying across the map to kill someone. Assists == gold. Teamfights are a huge draw for supports because they're a great source of income, just don't get too underleveled if you roam a lot. I generally have an assist for somewhere between half and three-quarters of the team's total kills. My screen shows diamond for takedowns and, umm, silver for CS (I support on a nearly-exclusive basis). I've had lots of games with more assists than CS (and I have, on various occasions, even farmed unused bits of the jungle as support, or robbed the enemy jungle when the opportunity arose, including one epic flash-W-ult & run dragon steal with Janna... got away from almost their whole team).

So you can see where my income comes from. Heck, it even works when I play other roles (and my horribad farming skills become a serious liability). You can see an Ez & Lux win on my match history right now. I'll tell you right now that I lost both lanes badly, farmed poorly, and yet eked out a win due to doing my best to cooperate with some very good teammates. I haven't calculated, but I wouldn't be surprised if the gold I got from assists compared rather favorably with the gold I got from farming.

About pings... never spam or you will get ignored. Just ping once when you see an enemy or something. Also try to briefly explain what you mean by the ping in chat (e.g. "they just warded here" or "lee gank from tribush"). You can't make anyone retreat or play smartly, so don't try. Just give them information and hope they can make something of it. Similarly, instead of going "you noob, why did you farm the with 20 hp vs. a Karthus!?" try saying something like "****, we gotta go b before Karth's ult is up again or we're dead."

Pings work better on better players. You get to play with better players by winning (and playing with skilled friends). And even though there are those damned noobs who won't run from a 5-man gank, most players aren't quite that bad and you can save them with timely information.

I mean, you can be calling MIA on _all_ lanes. Somebody on your team is probably smart enough to listen to pings if they know what you mean. But if they're idiots who won't listen, just keep doing it right. No spamming, don't act frustrated (even when you are), just business as usual. Eventually, the idiots will ruin their MMR and you won't see quite so many of them any more.

Hope that helps.


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Cardboardowl

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Senior Member

02-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneTobi View Post
I have been experimenting around with DFG on Elise but I have a little trouble on item order:

Nowadays I start 9 pot (7 health, 2 mana or 6, 3) and 2 wards or the usual flask ward pot -> Boots

Not too sure what item would be best right after boots, should I just rush DFG or get HG then build DFG?

6 full item: Sorc boots, DFG, Sunfire Cape, Warmogs ... what should the rest 2 items be? Debating between Rylai, Liandry, and Abyssal
liandrys and abyssal are sure.

also dfg first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galkrith View Post
I recently picked up Pantheon and was wondering if you could suggest any items from him to run top lane, in A1 matches I've been running atk speed items for more blocks but if I'm focused on it doesn't help cause I die so quickly
brutalizer bloodthirster warmog last whisper frozen mallet

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPlayer View Post
hi I just bought renger but I am clueless with him can u pls advise is he good top lane or jungle and which skill for jungle and whick skill for top and mastery rune for renger jungle and top ty if u answer
9-21-0 mastieries. max W for sustain, or Q for damage, or E for safe harrass. depends on what you are fighting in your lane.

Rengar is much better top, but if you are gonna take him in the jungle, just farm till 6 and lane gank with your ult.


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Cardboardowl

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Senior Member

02-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSZHUNG View Post
what should you do as the support if the adc is incompetant?

i've had a couple of games where the adc just can't cs (70~cs by 23 minutes) or just cant position themselves resulting in something like 2/8 by 15 minutes. never mind that i don't get thanks for any assists or plays (this is solo queue after all) but i feel really useless and helpless all throughout laning phase when i get paired with such a lane partner.

when teamfight phase comes (assuming all lanes haven't been terrible, which seems to be a 50/50 chance too) i know the conventional wisdom is to protect whoever's the most valuable if the adc derps. but by then if they have a fed enemy adc and can protect them, they've pretty much won the game by default. it's hard to do much going up against a 10-kill adc with 150 cs, especially if they have an aoe ult like MF.

i only play normals, but i think the same is probably happening in ranked, so was hoping oyu'd have some suggestions about what to do in this case.
Your job as the support is to MAKE the adc's competant. You have the fill the gap in skill. GIFT WRAP those kills.

Good leonas force feed their carries kills. Good lulus never stop poking, good namis dont lose trades and land the critical bubbles, good alistars totally lock down people with chain cc and beef. good jannas bait all day and never die. etc etc.


If they are missing half the cs, start taking the cs they miss. no reason not to. Make sure that YOU aren't useless when lane phase is over.

by 20 minutes a good place to be is philo kage sightstone+ one small item like chalice or kindlegem.


Also in lane, if the adc is feeding, try to stop the adc right before the last hit so the support gets in instead. that always softens the blow.

When teamfight comes, support the strongest person if you can't support everyone.


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Turboninjo

Junior Member

02-21-2013

I saw in your 100 tips thread not to read Mobafire. I am still new to the game and have ventured on the site quite a coupe times to get build ideas. Why is it bad? Where should I go for build ideas?


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Cardboardowl

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Senior Member

02-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboninjo View Post
I saw in your 100 tips thread not to read Mobafire. I am still new to the game and have ventured on the site quite a coupe times to get build ideas. Why is it bad? Where should I go for build ideas?
anyone can put whatever they want on mobafire.

try lolking, there the profiles of the authors are linked so you can at least verify they know what they are talking about.

Also most guides on moba are just bad.


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ExecutionerKen

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Senior Member

02-21-2013

Mobafire's guides are too toxic...


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WhoopsiGoldburg

Senior Member

02-21-2013

Hey I usually play leauge with a group of 5 and we usually do well but were on a bad spell at the moment.
Most of it comes down to our own personal mistakes and short-comings. But, sometimes our lack of a coherent team comp gimps us over in the end.

Since we usually don't think of synergy but rather who we would like to play. but, since were all competitive and on a losing streak we realize we need to look out our own playstyle but, also pick champions who synergize well together.

I'd like to ask for your thoughts on some team comps we could try running. Between all of us we own pretty much every champion since we've stuck with the same roles since starting the game.

Thanks for your thoughts.