Shen

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FaerellG

Senior Member

08-08-2012

Rush the Phage then figure out what you need next. As a bruiser you need to build to survive your opponent's damage type.

If you're anticipating lots of physical damage, get armor (chain vest)
If you're anticipating magic damage, then get Null Magic Mantel.

If CC, upgrade that NMM and boots into Merc Treads

If none are really a threat grab that Recurve for faster farming, or if things are sort of threatening but you can't decide, grab the Giant's belt in preparation for some sort of damage.

But yeah, you don't have to complete mallet immediately and in fact it's probably best not to as the money could go for something that would help you survive better or do more damage.


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DaystarFire

Member

08-08-2012

ah, ty for all the responses.


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M3GaL0d0n

Senior Member

08-08-2012

Don't listen to these wacky builds with Shen functioning as a bruiser if you want him to tank, sure it's viable, but fairly useless considering other options for mobile bruisers with supportive abilities. The builds your getting now are somewhat recycled J4 builds with some adjustments for a bruiser, that has no mana, in mind. Shen should generally build flat health early game, then working towards defensive stats later to work as a tank.

Runes ought to be mostly defensive, standard tank yellows and blues, attack speed reds if you jungle, or MPen, whichever you like more. Quints can be MPen, AP, Movespeed, Health, or GP10 for tank... or AS if you really want to play bruiser. Its worth noting that Shen has one of the highest Ultimate AP ratio in the game, and one of the higher total AP ratios. Stand United comes in at a whopping 1.35 AP ratio, Vorpal Blade has a .6, as does Feint, and Shadow Dash has a .5 AP ratio. Did I mention Stand United has an AP ratio over 1? 1.35 In fact.

Your first item is D# boots, either Mercs or Tabi, and Heart of Gold, then build a giants belt. Sunfire isn't as good an item as most people think. I build it all the time, just not on Shen, unless my team needs a strong split pusher. A good follow up to giants belt is Aegis, it works well with Shen if your support doesn't build it. If you're getting hammered by AP carries grab a Negatron, you can make a Force of Nature or Abyssal Scepter with it. If getting chopped up by AD's grab some armor and rush either a Sunfire if you only need a little armor or Thornmail if you're really in trouble, the latter synergizes well with Shadow Dash. Then work on the stat you didn't build, just a little bit to make sure you don't all of a sudden get destroyed by the enemy AP if you went for armor early, or vice versa. and toss some CDR into the build, Kindle gem into Zeke's isn't bad nor is kindle gem into Shurelyas, you can also buy Philostone if you feel the need for more gold. You should now work on more health and AP, adapting as you go.

Here's a quick rundown on this Shen build that isn't a wall-o-text.

-Mercury Treads or Ninja Tabi
-Locket or the Iron Solari (Or Randuin's Omen)
-Abyssal Scepter (If you have no other strong chasers on your team Force of Nature can help you grab those post-teamfight stragglers)
-Aegis, (Alternatively Guardian Angel)
-Shurelya's Reverie (If you didn't get Force of Nature, this will help with Shen who's generally fairly slow, also synergises well with Stand United)
-Rylai's Crystal Scepter (A far better option than Frozen Mallet in most cases)

If you want to use Shen's Tanking ability to full effect at the cost of some utility.

-Mercury Treads or Ninja Tabi
-Warmogs Armor (Dont rush, let giants belt sit for a while)
-Randuin's Omen
-Abyssal Scepter
-Sunfire Cape
-Thornmail (Or Force of Nature or Quick-Silver Sash if you're getting wailed on by Magic Damage dealers)

As always you can mix things up to suit your needs, so adjust the build to the game and buy items as you need them.

OKAY... OKAY... FINE!

I'll tell you how to play Shen as a bruiser...

-D# boots
-Sunfire
-Witts End
-Frozen Mallet
-Warmogs Armor
-Atmas Impaler

I hope you enjoy Shen as much as I do when he isn't banned, because he's one of the games best tanks and is very fun to play. GLHF and stuff.

P.S. Bruiser Shen is Pants-on-Head RETARDED


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DaystarFire

Member

08-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3GaL0d0n View Post
Don't listen to these wacky builds with Shen functioning as a bruiser if you want him to tank, sure it's viable, but fairly useless considering other options for mobile bruisers with supportive abilities. The builds your getting now are somewhat recycled J4 builds with some adjustments for a bruiser, that has no mana, in mind. Shen should generally build flat health early game, then working towards defensive stats later to work as a tank.

Runes ought to be mostly defensive, standard tank yellows and blues, attack speed reds if you jungle, or MPen, whichever you like more. Quints can be MPen, AP, Movespeed, Health, or GP10 for tank... or AS if you really want to play bruiser. Its worth noting that Shen has one of the highest Ultimate AP ratio in the game, and one of the higher total AP ratios. Stand United comes in at a whopping 1.35 AP ratio, Vorpal Blade has a .6, as does Feint, and Shadow Dash has a .5 AP ratio. Did I mention Stand United has an AP ratio over 1? 1.35 In fact.

Your first item is D# boots, either Mercs or Tabi, and Heart of Gold, then build a giants belt. Sunfire isn't as good an item as most people think. I build it all the time, just not on Shen, unless my team needs a strong split pusher. A good follow up to giants belt is Aegis, it works well with Shen if your support doesn't build it. If you're getting hammered by AP carries grab a Negatron, you can make a Force of Nature or Abyssal Scepter with it. If getting chopped up by AD's grab some armor and rush either a Sunfire if you only need a little armor or Thornmail if you're really in trouble, the latter synergizes well with Shadow Dash. Then work on the stat you didn't build, just a little bit to make sure you don't all of a sudden get destroyed by the enemy AP if you went for armor early, or vice versa. and toss some CDR into the build, Kindle gem into Zeke's isn't bad nor is kindle gem into Shurelyas, you can also buy Philostone if you feel the need for more gold. You should now work on more health and AP, adapting as you go.

Here's a quick rundown on this Shen build that isn't a wall-o-text.

-Mercury Treads or Ninja Tabi
-Locket or the Iron Solari (Or Randuin's Omen)
-Abyssal Scepter (If you have no other strong chasers on your team Force of Nature can help you grab those post-teamfight stragglers)
-Aegis, (Alternatively Guardian Angel)
-Shurelya's Reverie (If you didn't get Force of Nature, this will help with Shen who's generally fairly slow, also synergises well with Stand United)
-Rylai's Crystal Scepter (A far better option than Frozen Mallet in most cases)

If you want to use Shen's Tanking ability to full effect at the cost of some utility.

-Mercury Treads or Ninja Tabi
-Warmogs Armor (Dont rush, let giants belt sit for a while)
-Thornmail
-Abyssal Scepter
-Sunfire Cape
-Randuin's Omen (Or Force of Nature if you're getting wailed on by Magic Damage dealers)

As always you can mix things up to suit your needs, so adjust the build to the game and buy items as you need them.

OKAY... OKAY... FINE!

I'll tell you how to play Shen as a bruiser...

-D# boots
-Sunfire
-Witts End
-Frozen Mallet
-Warmogs Armor
-Atmas Impaler

I hope you enjoy Shen as much as I do when he isn't banned, because he's one of the games best tanks and is very fun to play. GLHF and stuff.

P.S. Bruiser Shen is Pants-on-Head RETARDED
Thank you for adding some options and variety to my build.

P.S. Bruiser Shen time!


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M3GaL0d0n

Senior Member

08-09-2012

Alright, just let me say, if you MUST play him as a bruiser and not the amazing peeler he is otherwise, you should really try Olaf and Jarvan IV, they have great kits similar to Shens and function in the role of Jungle/Solo top bruiser much better than Shen. But he's a quick list of bruiser items that work well on Shen.

-Zeke's Herald
-Sunfire Cape (The 40 DPS adds up quickly, allowing you around 200-300 bonus damage per fight to targets you stay close to)
-Witt's End (Defensive Heavy Bonus Magic damage and AS)
-Malady (Offensive Heavy Bonus Magic Damage and AS)
-Aegis of the Legion (Gives some AaD for otherwise all defensive Item)
-Warmogs (Flat health is the best way to boost Shen's damage)
-Frozen Mallet (Shen needs more CC if he wants to stick to his enemies)
-Atma's Impaler (Boosts Shen's Damage further if he builds health)
-Randuin's Omen (You're a bruiser after all)
-Thornmail (derr durr armor is good)
-Quick Silver Sash (Clears all debuffs, and gives you MR if you see enemy Bloodrazers, Also... it removes Nocturne's Ultimate, Paranoia (among others) for some hilarious counter ultimates)

Mix and match Items you like and think the game will allow you to use, be aware, as a bruiser, Shen is a mostly dysfunctional tank and peeler, so don't screw over your team by saying you'll function as the primary tank with this build. Also, be aware of enemies who appear to building Madred's Bloodrazer, If you see one coming together, build a large amount of MR through Force of Nature, Quick Silver Sash and Witt's End, and try to avoid taunting those enemies if possible.

Items to avoid...

-Frozen Heart (oh my gosh, don't make me explain this again)
-Banshee's Veil (derr durr mana is bad)
-Bloodthirster (Bad choice for most bruisers that don't scale well with AD)
-Hexdrinker/Maw of Malmortius (No Pure AD items, you scale well with health and attack speed, not AD, you also have no low-health functionality aside from running away, occasionall baiting, but mostly the former)
Trinity Force (Frozen Mallet is top priority, don't waste that 1500 gold on the second phage, unless you build Rylai's Crystal Scepter instead in a hybrid build)

Good luck & have fun with Jarvan... Sorry! Shen! My bad...

P.S. Here's a list of the debuffs you can laugh off with QSS, some of them are quite funny...

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Quicksilver_Sash


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FaerellG

Senior Member

08-09-2012

FYI, don't build a pure tank Shen. It's not a good idea. Shen isn't a Disruptor like Leona or Alistair. His taunt is on a long cooldown. It's a great disruption move, but it's his only disruption move. Shen HAS to build damage in order to be significant in team fights. At higher Elo, no one is going to bother focusing a Shen who has no damage. After that taunt wears off, it's back to murdering your squishier teammates for the next 8 seconds while your cooldown refreshes.

Thornmail is a horrible idea. It might work at the <1200 Elo range, but at any Elo above that Thornmail is a highly situational pick. Once again, no one is going to bother attacking you if you don't give them a reason to.

Shurelia's has that useless mana-regen component and takes a decent amount of cash to build into. Cash that you probably can't spare.

The ulti does have a great AP ratio scaling, but it's a long cooldown for a shield and a teleport. Great ability, but limited teamfight usage. I haven't experimented with AP shen much because it seems very limited and not very energy efficient. Bruiser shen builds some good AS and that translates into more ki-strike and thus more energy.
If you go AP shen, I would mix it with support, so you're effective an AP/Support. Even then, I would prioritize the Support items over the AP ones.

Champions like Jarvan have more CC options (Knockup, slow, wall). Additionally, Jarvan has a damage boosts that is scale naturally without any items. His Martial cadence only procs once per 6 seconds regardless of your AS, and his armor debuff does the same regardless of items.

On the other hand, Shen needs to be itemized to output damage (and incidentally, scales better with damage/tank items)


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M3GaL0d0n

Senior Member

08-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FaerellG View Post
FYI, don't build a pure tank Shen.
You're silly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FaerellG View Post
Thornmail is a horrible idea. It might work at the <1200 Elo range, but at any Elo above that Thornmail is a highly situational pick. Once again, no one is going to bother attacking you if you don't give them a reason to.
Thornmail isn't all about the passive, it's about the armor. Shen can't build Frozen Heart without wasting endless amounts of money on mana. So Thornmail is the goto alternative when he needs to tank turrets. It's also the goto item to completely shut down an enemy AD carry, Vayne and Kog'maw are the exceptions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FaerellG View Post
Shurelia's has that useless mana-regen component and takes a decent amount of cash to build into. Cash that you probably can't spare.
This isn't a core item, if the support does not build it, it's excellent for Shen. The "Useless mana-regen component" costs exactly 180 gold to build, the cheapest non-consumable item in the game, and it will give GP10 for some time, easily justifying this purchase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FaerellG View Post
The ulti does have a great AP ratio scaling, but it's a long cooldown for a shield and a teleport.
That's why we build CDR. Here's why AP Shen excels over Bruiser Shen in most cases, the AP from just Abyssal and Rylai's will attach around 270 shield strength to Stand United, I was just kidding about the 1.35 AP ratio, I knew that was wrong but some taffer went and screwed up the Shen article and changed the ratio on me, it's 1.5. This brings the shield strength up to over 1000 HP.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FaerellG View Post
Great ability, but limited teamfight usage.
In Addition to its gank stopping ability, this will save an ally being struck by % health finishing blows, such as Demacian Justice, or Children of the Grave. It can also stop usually fatal blows like Noxian Guillotine (If the Champion in question has around 500+ health left, or less than 5 stacks of Hemorrhage), which will immediately stop a rampaging Darius by setting his ult on cooldown. Feast is stopped as well, even an from an AP Cho'Gath, which is usually spelled as D-E-A-T-H to most AD carries when pared with Rupture and Feral Scream. "Limited teamfight usage," ...really now?



Quote:
Originally Posted by FaerellG View Post
I haven't experimented with AP shen much because it seems very limited and not very energy efficient. Bruiser shen builds some good AS and that translates into more ki-strike and thus more energy.
Increased shield strength on Feint (Which reduces Ki-strike's cooldown more as long as it holds), more damage and slow on Vorpal Blade (Which is on a low enough cooldown to perma-slow therefore a more effective chasing tool than Frozen Mallet against single targets), and a slow on the new version of Shadow Dash?

To talk about the taunt more, if Shen hits 2 people, it only costs 40 energy, 3 people and the energy cost and return break even, more energy is returned if you hit more than 3 enemies at once. If Shen spams either Vorpal blade or Shadow Dash, along with Feint, he will keep his energy up enough to out last most teamfights.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FaerellG View Post
If you go AP shen, I would mix it with support, so you're effective an AP/Support. Even then, I would prioritize the Support items over the AP ones.
Shen's job in teamfights is peeling (Compare his initiation ability to that of Malphite, Hecarim, Galio, Amumu, or Skarner)... he outclasses most dedicated supports at defending carries, and does even better if he can fight along side them. Also these aren't AP items, I didn't say build Deathcap, these are Hybrid Tanky-AP items, its important to note they fit both roles well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FaerellG View Post
Champions like Jarvan have more CC options (Knockup, slow, wall). Additionally, Jarvan has a damage boosts that is scale naturally without any items. His Martial cadence only procs once per 6 seconds regardless of your AS, and his armor debuff does the same regardless of items.
Since you brought it up, Martial Cadence functions the same as Udyr's Bear Stance, once every 6 seconds to every enemy in the fight. Used properly, this can out damage Ki-strike anyways depending on the circumstances. Jarvan's scaling isn't in question here, he scales well into every stage of the game. The question is role, Jarvan IV's job is to dive headfirst into the enemy team to start a fight, then deal a bunch of burst damage and crowd control. Shen's role is peeling, stopping key ult's and other abilities from killing his allies, which he does better than J4. J4 does his role... dealing damage, killing things, and getting in fights, better than Shen. So if you want a high-damage, mobile, and tanky DPS offtank, I suggest you look at other options, however, I gave you a build which allows Shen to perform the latter role as best as he can.

I like this discussion, and it's your move...


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Lord Solar Bear

Member

08-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaystarFire View Post
Anyone know of a good Shen build? I kinda want to learn how to play him and noe of the guides I looked up have a satisfying build.
Hey Daystar!

I would like to help you out on the Shen build you are looking for. I build him one of 2 ways, and I have a core item for both: the Heart of Gold. I use it for both because you cannot assume you are going to have a perfect game, especially as Shen. I also am not going to give you pointless information like "you can make your own," or "try to find one," because no duhh. You clearly didn't find one you liked, or maybe you want to hear our opinions.

I like 9/21 masteries, taking magic pen in offense, maxing defense. I also like Exhaust/Flash in all lanes with Shen (save jungling!)

I have a pair of bruiser trees I go in with Shen, as well as a full tank build. My bruiser builds are more of an AD Shen with plenty of magic damage, and the tank is mostly defenses (of course...)

I start with cloth armor and 5 pots, boots and 3 pots (you COULD wait for a 4th pot. You won't lose a single creep if you are fast) A final choice would be a doran's shield/regrowth and a pot if you are going against a hard AD poker like Gangplank.
From there, I build my Heart of Gold. Now from here, I either go lane stomping magic resist (AP top, their mid is fed, they have an AP jungler, etc.) or I go with armor.

With the magic resist one, I will take boots if I don't have them already, then I will get a Nul Magic Mantel and start to build a Wriggle's Lantern. After Wriggle's, probably during the Wriggle's, I take Mercury's Treds. These give you fantastic Magic Resist, and my CC next to nothing if you invest in 21 points into the defensive mastery tree. Ok, now you should have over 100 armor, and close to that in magic resist. Perfect, and your Heart of Gold makes you decently tanky. Now what?

I build a Witt's End (this is starting to sound like a Shyvanna build, huh?) Witt's End is fantastic on Shen. Attack speed triggers his passive more, magic resist stomps your laning opponent, and it increases the longer you fight Shen. Furthermore, it will help you pull off some fantastic saves/kills with your mid AP carry, for they will need it if they get ganked.

Now you have damage, defense, and are ok on health. From here I build the Frozen Mallet. This will round you off at over 2k HP, which will be incredibly tanky if you use your W properly and try to draw fire. An option here would be to go with a Rylai's, or something else, but I don't tend to like it.

From here, the rest of the game is your's. Build what you need. If you need a GA, go for it. Sell your Wriggle's to help pay for a better item for your 6th slot, and win.

If you need to be a tank, get Warmog's. If they have an OP carry, build your Heart of Gold into a Randuin's. How about their mage is owning you, Force of Nature (you get well over 400 movement speed-it's pretty awesome!) The final item that I always want to get would be a Madred's Blood Razer, and maybe even a Blood Thirster if you need to be your team's carry. You should be unstoppable, around 3k health, and you could brawl and beat almost anyone.

The AD stomping build is simple. You get Ninja Tabi rather than Merc's (and I suggest you start with cloth armor,) and get your Witt's End after that. WHAAAT- Witt's End? Again, it works great with your passive. You pump out so much damage with that. From there, you can get more armor if they are stomping you (and get a Randuin's,) or better yet get your Frozen Mallet. End the game just like the other build.

For tanky Shen, I start with the HoA, get a Warmog's, and then a Sunfire's Cape. I then build a FoN, and then damage items of your choice.

If you need specifics add me in the game, or just reply here. Best of luck to you!

SlayerSR


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FaerellG

Senior Member

08-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3GaL0d0n View Post
You're silly.
Excellent ad-hominiem. Here's a better one:
http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/24408889
Nice 1-5 win ratio with Shen. That combined with your sub 1200 Elo really qualifies you to give advice right?

Here are the reasons that Shen shouldn't be built pure tank:
1 disruption ability on a long cooldown. Limited by energy. After his taunt what does he do? Auto attack, vorpal blade. That's all he can do.
There is 0 reason to focus Shen if he doesn't build damage. Ki-strike alone is not enough to make you a credible threat. You need to stack AS in order to get it to proc frequently.

Can you explain to me what a "pure tank" shen does after he's taunted? What does Shen have in his skill set that makes focusing damage on him (rather than the teammate he's protecting) a good choice for the opposition?

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3GaL0d0n View Post
Thornmail isn't all about the passive, it's about the armor. Shen can't build Frozen Heart without wasting endless amounts of money on mana. So Thornmail is the goto alternative when he needs to tank turrets. It's also the goto item to completely shut down an enemy AD carry, Vayne and Kog'maw are the exceptions.
There are better Armor options such as Randuins and Atma's. They don't give you as much as Thornmail, but they provide other benefits along with their armor such as the AS/MS debuff and some bonus Damage.

The thing about Tanks at higher Elo is that you don't need THAT much armor. Building too much defense means that you'll be de-prioritized in a team fight. Build stuff that punishes people for focusing you and intelligent opponents just won't focus you.

And I'm sorry, if you're playing at the level where thornmail "completely shuts down enemy AD carry" then I think your advice is suspect. That's some triple digit Elo tactics there. Seriously, ask any of the 1500+ players here. Thornmail is a highly situational item and life-steal + some MR makes the reflected damage negligible.

You are better off building just about any other Armor item. Aegis should be prioritized before Thornmail because it actually gives armor to your

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3GaL0d0n View Post
This isn't a core item, if the support does not build it, it's excellent for Shen. The "Useless mana-regen component" costs exactly 180 gold to build, the cheapest non-consumable item in the game, and it will give GP10 for some time, easily justifying this purchase.
I generally don't need GP10 items on Shen. I get plenty of money from Assists and Kills.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3GaL0d0n View Post
That's why we build CDR.
This is another hallmark of a bad player, CDR on an energy champion.

[QUOTE=M3GaL0d0n;28062662]Here's why AP Shen excels over Bruiser Shen in most cases, the AP from just Abyssal and Rylai's will attach around 270 shield strength to Stand United, I was just kidding about the 1.35 AP ratio, I knew that was wrong but some taffer went and screwed up the Shen article and changed the ratio on me, it's 1.5. This brings the shield strength up to over 1000 HP.

In Addition to its gank stopping ability, this will save an ally being struck by % health finishing blows, such as Demacian Justice, or Children of the Grave. It can also stop usually fatal blows like Noxian Guillotine (If the Champion in question has around 500+ health left, or less than 5 stacks of Hemorrhage), which will immediately stop a rampaging Darius by setting his ult on cooldown. Feast is stopped as well, even an from an AP Cho'Gath, which is usually spelled as D-E-A-T-H to most AD carries when pared with Rupture and Feral Scream. "Limited teamfight usage," ...really now? [quote]
Ok, there's a serious flaw in your logic here. If your opponents are using Execute nukes where you need a 1000 HP shield to save your ally, then your opponents are dumb. Maybe you've gotten used to this at your Elo, but that's not how competent players play. Execute abilities like Cho, Garren, Darius are used as soon as the victim is within kill range. Any amount of shield will save them from immediate death.

If you're talking about a DoT like Children of the Grave, once again, an extra 200 points of shield won't help. The amount of time it would take Morde's ulti to deal more than 800 damage, Shen's shield will have expired. It only lasts 5 seconds.

And yes, limited teamfight usage. You get to use it once a fight. No amount of CDR is going to get it to go off twice a fight. That's what I mean by limited usage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by M3GaL0d0n View Post
Increased shield strength on Feint (Which reduces Ki-strike's cooldown more as long as it holds), more damage and slow on Vorpal Blade (Which is on a low enough cooldown to perma-slow therefore a more effective chasing tool than Frozen Mallet against single targets), and a slow on the new version of Shadow Dash?
How do you have enough Energy to "perma slow" opponents? After a few Vorpals, you're done. Mallet applies with every melee swing granting exceptional sticking power and peeling power.

And don't tell me about Feint bringing Ki-strike up faster, I know about that. The problem is that Feint has a limited duration of 3 seconds. If you don't build attack speed, you only get 2 hits while feint is up, so it doesn't really matter how much extra shield you get. It expires. Building attack speed will let you sneak an extra hit in while the shield is up while having AP still leaves your potential at 2 hits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3GaL0d0n View Post
To talk about the taunt more, if Shen hits 2 people, it only costs 40 energy, 3 people and the energy cost and return break even, more energy is returned if you hit more than 3 enemies at once. If Shen spams either Vorpal blade or Shadow Dash, along with Feint, he will keep his energy up enough to out last most teamfights.
Yea, I'm noticing a trend here. The vast majority of your tactics involve your opponents being really stupid. Be it blowing huge over-kill nukes, willingly focusing the tankiest person on the team, or in this case grouping up close enough for Shen to taunt more than 2 people.

This sort of stuff doesn't happen very frequently against skilled opponents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3GaL0d0n View Post
Shen's job in teamfights is peeling (Compare his initiation ability to that of Malphite, Hecarim, Galio, Amumu, or Skarner)... he outclasses most dedicated supports at defending carries, and does even better if he can fight along side them. Also these aren't AP items, I didn't say build Deathcap, these are Hybrid Tanky-AP items, its important to note they fit both roles well.
Ok, here we agree. Shen is more of a peeler than an initiator. And I'm ok with building Hybrid-AP tank. That's more of a Support-shen. This is not what I have a problem with. What I have a problem with is building a pure tank shen. Pure tank Shen would deal **** for damage, and have weak shields.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3GaL0d0n View Post
Since you brought it up, Martial Cadence functions the same as Udyr's Bear Stance, once every 6 seconds to every enemy in the fight. Used properly, this can out damage Ki-strike anyways depending on the circumstances. Jarvan's scaling isn't in question here, he scales well into every stage of the game. The question is role, Jarvan IV's job is to dive headfirst into the enemy team to start a fight, then deal a bunch of burst damage and crowd control. Shen's role is peeling, stopping key ult's and other abilities from killing his allies, which he does better than J4. J4 does his role... dealing damage, killing things, and getting in fights, better than Shen. So if you want a high-damage, mobile, and tanky DPS offtank, I suggest you look at other options, however, I gave you a build which allows Shen to perform the latter role as best as he can
Actually, Shen has higher damage potential than Jarvan if you build him as a bruiser. Martial Cadence only hits once per 6 seconds. With a single AS item, Shen's Ki-strike can go off 2-3 times in 6 seconds. Which gives you the energy to use your abilities to deal even more damage.

I should also note that Martial Cadence (10% of victim's HP) caps at 400 damage. In order to hit that Cap, your opponent needs a minimum of 4000 HP. Hitting a squishy with that damage will likely drop it to 200-300 damage.
Shen's Ki-strike also scales off of 10% HP...but off his own which is likely to be higher than whomever he's hitting. It also has a flat damage component that brings it up by 72 damage at level 18.

So not only would Ki-strike activate more frequently, it's also likely to deal more damage per hit. Explain to me how jarvan is a better damage dealer again? I mean, he's got an AS boost with his flag, but you can build AS/Tank items on Shen and he'll just deal even more damage (Both wit's end and ionic spark). You could build those items on Jarvan and it wouldn't scale nearly as well.


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an actual dog

Senior Member

08-10-2012

Ionic Spark
Ionic Spark
Ionic Spark
Ionic Spark
Ionic Spark
Boots