Mana Drain / Vamp

123
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TheLastBaron88

Senior Member

08-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdeadman View Post
Talon's matches that description, however there are many others.

No, because Riot decided not to put any hard disabling abilities on items. Some champions are balanced around not having hard CC (such as Shyvana and Katarina), and would become rather powerful if they could gain access to such abilities. Stun the person that's saving their disable for Kat, ult the rest of the team, carry team fights even though you're an assassin and all that.
Figured as much, but thought I should ask anyway. Thanks for the info though. Do you think an anti-mage champ with mana burn/steal abilities would be more viable than items, or is the entire concept best left out of the game?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

XCodes

Senior Member

08-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastBaron88 View Post
Figured as much, but thought I should ask anyway. Thanks for the info though. Do you think an anti-mage champ with mana burn/steal abilities would be more viable than items, or is the entire concept best left out of the game?
I think if you had a one-shot mana-burn nuke on a reasonable cooldown timer that did damage based on % mana, then you could achieve the stated goal without creating anti-fun.

Feedback, on the other hand, just doesn't work well in MOBAs.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TheLastBaron88

Senior Member

08-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by XCodes View Post
I think if you had a one-shot mana-burn nuke on a reasonable cooldown timer that did damage based on % mana, then you could achieve the stated goal without creating anti-fun.

Feedback, on the other hand, just doesn't work well in MOBAs.
How do you mean? Community feedback has done wonders for this game since release, hasn't it?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Triton95

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Member

08-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastBaron88 View Post
Oh. So do you think that having it deal a % of total mana pool on strike would have made it more feasible, since it would have less effect on smaller mana pools? Just seems like it would be a nice utility option for team battles, since well-built APs can seemingly never run out of mana. For that matter, there are no items or abilities which affect the target's mana regen either, are there?
Yeah I found the patch update and what Wits used to be. I think Riot should bring something like that back, but make it a percentage drain instead of a flat one. Maybe it could be like Madreds Bloodrazor. I could see AD carries using this to make the enemy casters almost worthless. It would also help to counter the DPSes.

I don't think it should be a super strong percentage maybe like a 1-2% or so, and then have a percentage of the mana burned be converted into damage. And again that could be like a 4% conversion. This would damage DPSes but it would counter Mana champions like Ryze. It should be a legendary Tier item as if gotten early game it would be ridiculously OP..


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

JustMyBassCannon

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

08-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triton95 View Post
Yeah I found the patch update and what Wits used to be. I think Riot should bring something like that back, but make it a percentage drain instead of a flat one. Maybe it could be like Madreds Bloodrazor. I could see AD carries using this to make the enemy casters almost worthless. It would also help to counter the DPSes.

I don't think it should be a super strong percentage maybe like a 1-2% or so, and then have a percentage of the mana burned be converted into damage. And again that could be like a 4% conversion. This would damage DPSes but it would counter Mana champions like Ryze. It should be a legendary Tier item as if gotten early game it would be ridiculously OP..
The problem, again, with Mana Burn being available, especially on an item, is because either it isn't effective enough and you may as well have a less specialized item in it's place, or it's overpoweringly effective.

Another example of this is Sleep as a CC. I've heard of it being used in other MOBAs, and it's basically a really long stun that is cancelled if someone hits the sleeping target. Either everyone knows not to hit the sleeper, and they kill the rest of the team first, or they screw it up and may as well have not used it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TheLastBaron88

Senior Member

08-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdeadman View Post
The problem, again, with Mana Burn being available, especially on an item, is because either it isn't effective enough and you may as well have a less specialized item in it's place, or it's overpoweringly effective.

Another example of this is Sleep as a CC. I've heard of it being used in other MOBAs, and it's basically a really long stun that is cancelled if someone hits the sleeping target. Either everyone knows not to hit the sleeper, and they kill the rest of the team first, or they screw it up and may as well have not used it.
Actually that prompts a somewhat unrelated but burning question I have had for awhile now. What differentiates Stun from Knock-Up, in terms of effect? Don't they both prevent you from doing anything to defend yourself for the duration of the effect?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

JustMyBassCannon

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

08-07-2012

Well, basically, Knockup is a mini-stun. However, due to how available CC reduction/negation is, Riot figured that a 0.25-0.5 second stun would be entirely worthless against anyone with even just Merc Treads (which was why, initially, Riven's stun was considered **** before it went to 0.75). So, instead of making mini-stuns last longer to compensate, they made it an unmitigatable stun, more or less. The knockup is just the animation to differentiate from normal stuns.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TheLastBaron88

Senior Member

08-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdeadman View Post
Well, basically, Knockup is a mini-stun. However, due to how available CC reduction/negation is, Riot figured that a 0.25-0.5 second stun would be entirely worthless against anyone with even just Merc Treads (which was why, initially, Riven's stun was considered **** before it went to 0.75). So, instead of making mini-stuns last longer to compensate, they made it an unmitigatable stun, more or less. The knockup is just the animation to differentiate from normal stuns.
Thanks man, that had been bugging me for awhile now. I dunno, overall I'm not really adamant about the whole mana burn thing, it just seemed like a glaring oversight not to have been included. Since it was initially included and later removed, I can only be led to believe that there was good reason for it. Probably for similar reasons as to why Dodge was removed, lol.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

axesandspears

Senior Member

08-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastBaron88 View Post
Thanks man, that had been bugging me for awhile now. I dunno, overall I'm not really adamant about the whole mana burn thing, it just seemed like a glaring oversight not to have been included. Since it was initially included and later removed, I can only be led to believe that there was good reason for it. Probably for similar reasons as to why Dodge was removed, lol.
Riot only removes mechanics when they prove too problematic to actually balance. Any mechanic that has been thrown out was thrown out for a good reason.

Knock ups exist in cases where the "stun" is too infrequent or "necessary" to the champion's design to allow mitigation.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Venova

Senior Member

09-06-2012

I think a mana burn active would be okay, that scaled on current mana of the target rather then max, so like, 2 minute cooldown, burns 20% of current mana of target (magic resist of the target prevents % of the mana burn, magic penatration is effective on the active to counter high magic resist), applies a debuff that lasts 15 seconds to prevent other enemies casting the mana burn on the same target again.


123