Upcoming Zyra Changes

First Riot Post
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Metalopol

Senior Member

08-07-2012

good.


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ForeverLaxx

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Senior Member

08-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimeraa View Post
I'd buy this if it was a gimmick that needed fixing, something they didn't account for. NOT HER BASE NUMBERS. "We don't like that she can OMGWTFBBQ and zone control". She's not the first AP caster, they have comparisons, and she's not the first with zone control, are you telling me they couldn't compare those? I can in a few hours of test games on my own.
But, to be fair here, Anivia has great base numbers on her burst combo and can frequently afford to build tanky with just Sorc Shoes for damage, and was used as a comparison point for these nerfs.

Like I posted a few pages back, a smattering of seemingly small buffs can combine into something too good in much the same way a bunch of small nerfs can combine into something that's too bad. I am pretty sure these nerfs probably get her closer to how she was initially on the PBE before people thought she was weak and needed something to be competitive.


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Fazuzu

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Senior Member

08-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcolyte View Post
This suit of nerfs is a bit overzealous, and I cannot imagine you cannot see that.

But first lets get past what I agree with:

Plant damage nerf, should probably be closer to 40% or maybe 33%. Although that would probably decrease the 'uniqueness' of her.
Stranglethorns range reduction seems fair, its max distance is still rather large. Could even be decreased another 25-50 or the size of the AoE SLIGHTLY reduced.

Which leaves the questionable nerfs you are suggesting

Taking the full 10 move speed seems excessive, 305 should be well enough wouldn't it? can we at least agree walking her power down slowly would be less destructive than successive slow changes. It seems like there has not been nearly enough time to pick up Zyra's counter play.

Grasping Roots and Stranglethorns damage and scaling reductions. These could be fine IF there is a small AP ratio increase and the plants keep attacking a champion despite zyra's attack hitting a creep. So that the plants won't "downgrade"(re-prioritize) their target if a champion is who they last hit. Maybe a slight bump on the range of the slowing ones. The targeting is mostly for the laning phase where she is still trying to farm but get the actual damage on target that is on par with other champions.


Now my complaints about Zyra

W puts build itemization into a terrible/strange place. This is because you will get 20% free CDR eventually. This makes her reliant on blue far more than most other mages. Most mages have the option of building more than 1 CDR item without completely wasting it. Also, the majority of mana regen items also contain CDR. On top of that there are only 2 items with AP and mana, Liche Bane and RoA. 3 items with Mana and a single defensive stat.

All(nearly) mages get boots of some kind and deathcap
The logical CDR item is DFG, since anything more than 16% CDR is wasted and its burst is very useful.
The last 3 slots you have to fit health/mana/defensive AP items and there isn't a decent combination of items to fill these niches currently. It is frustrating how screwed up mage itemization is right now. The fact that her W is basically a 'useless' skill to level and not a "one point wonder" it just hinders her gameplay which was compensated for by her being SLIGHTLY stronger an she should have been. With these changings I imagine she will experience something not so different than Orianna had originally.
I usually rank W first actually, to make sure I always have a spare seed available or available shortly if I use both. I did a quick treeline for 9/4/10 to try her out after the nerf, it's not bad. At least the way i was using her usually, I didn't notice it much to be honest. even the ms wasn't bad but I do usually pick up a rylai anyways cause she always felt alittle slow even before the nerf. It just all seems bad since there were so many sudden changes, but actually using her, it's not a big deal at least in the match I played earlier.


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Treza

Senior Member

08-07-2012

after playing her today i felt weak


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LeVerdeTurtle

Senior Member

08-07-2012

The only reason that I would think of her as overpowered is that if she lands her snare on you, you're pretty much done for unless you have your flash up.
Also, when you trade with her and eventually kill her, you're going to have to dodge her skillshot true damage nuke which comes from her plant.
This is especially hard when Zyra players actually know how to play and trade evenly with almost anyone.
After the even trades, either Zyra ends up winning or Zyra loses and finishes off her opponent with her passive.
Rework the passive?


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FailIncorporated

Senior Member

08-07-2012

Thank you riot for the in depth though and reasoning put into these posts. Very nice job backing your changes. This is one of the best and most well thought out explanations I have seen from you guys.


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Blizzwise

Junior Member

08-07-2012

The horrible riot team strikes again and makes a champ useless yet again. Thats what happens when uneducated people that somehow manage to get a degree try and fix something. Makes me wonder what university they went to so I can tell people to stay away from that place.

Haven't seen a nerf this big to a champion ever. Its sad that Ahri's Q out damages Zyra's whole combo now. It cool for other champions to have huge damage and CC and shields but not for others. Numbers were bad at the start and totally wrecked a champion because people with a degree don't know basic math.

This just in riot looking for more moron to work on their team, please apply here at www.moronsareus.com


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Fazuzu

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Senior Member

08-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treza View Post
after playing her today i felt weak
I was laned against fizz and hecarim earlier in a treeline so I tried to be very careful, and usually timed the seeds so I would have one to E with in case they tried to jump me. She's just meant to be a careful champion, although i did have fun rylai/hourglass/revolver toying with melee on her, can probably still do it though. But they intended for her to be played carefully, managing the seeds and the type of plant you use and where you place it, keeping an eye on the enemy, she is pretty fun to play that way. i feel like a wolf stalking his prey on her sometimes, waiting for their weak moment to strike and get my meal. also she is fun to bait with when you get rylai and an hourglass and have plants ready for her ult. before the nerf i used to kill 2 people trying to gank me lol, and when somebody lived I got away because of E and the rylais slow on the Q plants, flash if I needed a little extra distance from them. I don't know if I'd wanna try that now though to be honest since I'm not sure how that would work out any more


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Exacerberus

Senior Member

08-07-2012

Zyra's so OP that one has to be blind not to figure or accept these nerfs (which were really needed).
Zyra is still a top priority ban anyway (and here is how she was perceived at high elo pre-nerf).


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DaedricChampion

Senior Member

08-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exacerberus View Post
Zyra's so OP that one has to be blind not to figure or accept these nerfs (which were really needed).
Zyra is still a top priority ban anyway (and here is how she was perceived at high elo pre-nerf).
yes she was strong, and not impossible to beat in lane at that. Nerfs were necessary but numerous ones to her range and damage were definately not necessary especially ontop of nerfing her movement speed.


and reginalds guide seems more of a qq than an actual guide.