Tips on Group Battles / Late Game

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Aregionius

Senior Wrenchman

11-11-2009

Does anyone have tips on how to play the late game when you're more focused on large group fighting and/or backdooring towers?

My problem is this, recently I've been playing in a number of games where my team will "win" early and mid game. A large portion of the time we can land first bloods, push towers down to half or even outright kill them before the 20 minute mark. By mid game, we'll usually be somewhere between 5-15 kills ahead of the opposing team.

Then, somewhere between mid game and late game, we just get rolled. We lose fights where we're evenly matched in number of players. I don't know whether to go try defending a tower when there's a wave of opposing minions and maybe one pushing hero or stay and help my team fight against a group of heroes pushing a different lane. It seems like either option doesn't come out with a good result.


There are some basics that seem to come up like,
1. Don't go out alone, especially if you can't account for all the enemy heroes.
2. Stay far back, especially if they have disablers or someone who can stealth.
3. Try to ambush

But it seems like these are much harder to put into practice. I'm sure some of this stems just from hero selection, but I've played with friends, with pubs on all different types of teams and this seems to happen anyway. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!


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Admonished

Senior Member

11-11-2009

Well it mainly depends on the hero compisitions of both teams. Try to keep the opposing team split up or if you have a lot of aoe keep em bunched. Learn how to lure people into ganks and pay attention to where people are at all times. Trying to push late game and only one defender? Make sure the rest of his team is occupied/ dead elsewhere or that you can take it down quickly, else your just asking to be ganked. If your getting ganked a lot by roaming groups buy wards! I know people hear this advice but very few actually do it. Ward prevent you from getting caught off guard and help you find solo heroes wandering around just waiting to get ganked. Well thats just the topping of the issue really you need to communicate as a team as to how your gonna do things from when to push, gank or leave areas. Communication is key.


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JohnCataldo

Senior Member

11-11-2009

There are a number of "group battle" items that you should seriously considered getting. If one team has multiple of these and the other team has none, it's a huge advantage. If your team isn't getting multiple of these regularly, you are probably doing something wrong.

Aegis of the Legion: This buffs your entire teams armor, magic resistance, and physical damage. A tank on your team should really get this item. Practically a must-have item for any team.

Stark's Fervor: If you have 3+ physical attackers on your team you need to have one of these. Bonus damage (both attack speed and armor reduction) plus keeps your team alive (lifesteal and health regen).

Frozen Heart: This is exceptionally good if the enemy has multiple physical attackers such as Yi or Ashe. Usually a tank who wants armor gets this, such as Malphite or Rammus.

Black Cleaver, Malady: Both of these effectively increase the damage done by your teammates on your target, if your team is using physical damage. The fact that they are decent items outside of group battles makes them strong contenders for early/mid game items that continue to be useful later on.

Soul Shroud: Adds mana and reduces cooldowns for your team! This is one of the most subtle of group items, but quite useful. Best on a team with spammable skills, like Karthus or Soraca (but useful on any team).

Innervating Locket: We're getting to increasingly specialized items here, but if you are playing a champion who might want Innervating Locket anyway, it's useful for group fights, though best for extended sieges that take a long time.

Executioner's Calling: Extremely useful if the other team has healers (Soraca, Taric) or even just many Summoner Heals, even though it doesn't strictly help your teammates. Similar to Black Cleaver and Malady to help focus one enemy to death.


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Shizz

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Senior Member

11-11-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnCataldo View Post
There are a number of "group battle" items that you should seriously considered getting. If one team has multiple of these and the other team has none, it's a huge advantage. If your team isn't getting multiple of these regularly, you are probably doing something wrong.

Aegis of the Legion: This buffs your entire teams armor, magic resistance, and physical damage. A tank on your team should really get this item. Practically a must-have item for any team.

Stark's Fervor: If you have 3+ physical attackers on your team you need to have one of these. Bonus damage (both attack speed and armor reduction) plus keeps your team alive (lifesteal and health regen).

Frozen Heart: This is exceptionally good if the enemy has multiple physical attackers such as Yi or Ashe. Usually a tank who wants armor gets this, such as Malphite or Rammus.

Black Cleaver, Malady: Both of these effectively increase the damage done by your teammates on your target, if your team is using physical damage. The fact that they are decent items outside of group battles makes them strong contenders for early/mid game items that continue to be useful later on.

Soul Shroud: Adds mana and reduces cooldowns for your team! This is one of the most subtle of group items, but quite useful. Best on a team with spammable skills, like Karthus or Soraca (but useful on any team).

Innervating Locket: We're getting to increasingly specialized items here, but if you are playing a champion who might want Innervating Locket anyway, it's useful for group fights, though best for extended sieges that take a long time.

Executioner's Calling: Extremely useful if the other team has healers (Soraca, Taric) or even just many Summoner Heals, even though it doesn't strictly help your teammates. Similar to Black Cleaver and Malady to help focus one enemy to death.
While I agree with a lot of items on your list, I don't see how you missed Guardian Angel!

GA is like the best item for a tank and sometimes even non tanks for late game.

EDIT: GA might not seem like a "group battle" item at first glance, but if the opposing team wastes their ults + spells on your tank with GA, then your tank indirectly helped your team kill the enemy.


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Elad

Senior Member

11-11-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnCataldo View Post
There are a number of "group battle" items that you should seriously considered getting. If one team has multiple of these and the other team has none, it's a huge advantage. If your team isn't getting multiple of these regularly, you are probably doing something wrong.

Aegis of the Legion: This buffs your entire teams armor, magic resistance, and physical damage. A tank on your team should really get this item. Practically a must-have item for any team.

Stark's Fervor: If you have 3+ physical attackers on your team you need to have one of these. Bonus damage (both attack speed and armor reduction) plus keeps your team alive (lifesteal and health regen).
These two items are huge. Make sure your team has these two items every game. Frozen heart is also good, but Starks and Aegis are required.


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Evernight

Senior Member

11-11-2009

The problem I see alot is the failure to designate and Focus Fire a single enemy.... and the correct one at that. Riot has done a great job allowing teams to designate targets with the ping crosshairs.

When you come into group fight be sure to light a target up with the crosshairs so everyone knows who should be focused down. Usually this toon is the the High DPS carries and people without a proper escape skill, or heavy AOE disables.

Yi, Twisted Fate, Jax, Warwick, Twitch, etc. Even tanks like amumu should be taken early if you can get him before he uses his ult or make him blow it early.

Chars that should be ignored until after the fight are those with powerhouse escape skills (getting them to low hp just to watch them run off is no good) and proper tanks. I.E. Corki, Shaco, Alistar, Cho'Gath, Tyrandamere, Kayle.


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JohnCataldo

Senior Member

11-11-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizz View Post
While I agree with a lot of items on your list, I don't see how you missed Guardian Angel!

GA is like the best item for a tank and sometimes even non tanks for late game.

EDIT: GA might not seem like a "group battle" item at first glance, but if the opposing team wastes their ults + spells on your tank with GA, then your tank indirectly helped your team kill the enemy.
Guardian Angel is a fine item. It's not a group battle item all that much. If the enemy focuses on your tank, you will win the game anyway. That makes GA win the battle even more than you would have, but you don't need it at that point. GA is often better on non-tanks who are likely to be focused upon. (Not that it's "bad" on tanks, since it's armor and magic resist.)

I agree with Elad. There's nearly never a game where you don't want Aegis and Stark's. If you had ZERO physical attackers maybe you wouldn't have Stark's, but if that's the case your team is probably screwed anyway when they stack magic resist.


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Wappas

Senior Member

11-12-2009

once thing to keep in mind about group items.

Try to spread these around on your team giving the most beneficial ones to those with the highest chance of survival (aegis on a healer, frozen heart on a tank, starks on the dps carry) If one character holds them all and goes down; there goes a big portion of your team's survivability.

As Soraka, I will always pick up aegis and SoulShroud. but try not to get others to pick up the others so that if i fall my team's auras don't disappear with me.
Playing as Amumu vs a physical heavy team; frozen heart is almost mandatory as it will reduce their damage output by a significant amount.