Is there any way to deal with Riven on Dom?

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NavyGothic

Senior Member

08-06-2012

So, the purpose of this thread isn't to actually ask for advice, but to whine about how OP Riven is?


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Wolfalisk

Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NavyGothic View Post
So, the purpose of this thread isn't to actually ask for advice, but to whine about how OP Riven is?
It's actually both. I'm interested in what I've been doing wrong and I am perpetually amused by people who try to defend Riven.


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Volandum

Senior Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzzled View Post
Gee, how very helpful

All champions get ****ed by crowd control
That's not what I said. You should not use quote and then write something different.


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The Fizznity

Senior Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by WowGgPrettyEzTho View Post
Outside of the fact that you probably CAN'T answer my questions on the grounds that there is no real answer that doesn't paint Riven as being out of line, I will instead ask you this:

What part of 6 mediocre to decent AD ratios (one of which being an AD SCALING shield!), 2 forms of CC, and 4 minidashes are indicative of a balanced champion?
(fixed that for ya)

I know you tend to play Brand and other squishy APs, so of course she'll look super strong. The thing is though:
* She has no fast/instant gapcloser like most other bruisers, this makes her reach surprisingly short
* Despite being an AD caster, she outputs her damage entirely over time
* Her itemization is a bit gimped, having no solid stackable AD item to buy (Sanguine Blade stacks but is too expensive and the passive is not great for her, she doesnt really want youmuu's AS or crit, and hexdrinker/maw offers low AD for cost)
* She has all physical damage, which means armor DOES heavily counter her
* Because she has no inbuilt arpen, she falls off a cliff vs anyone designed to not crumple in her face
* She has next to no incentive to build many defensive items; the AD scaling shield replaces a resistance steroid which would incentivize building health. This leads into the next point.
* She's incredibly vulnerable to silences and stuns/snares (despite the bug which often lets her finish Q casts through CC or even GA revival); all she gets is lame autos without the ability to mix in spells, and no spells riven is a squishy riven.

Also, all AD scaling champions need significantly higher total ratios than their AP or mixed counterparts, because AD comes at about half of the points per cost of AP.


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MyDeadGrandma

Senior Member

08-06-2012

I love the 'AD scaling shield wtf' argument. If she's building AD, guess what she doesn't have high levels of. That's right, armor and mr! Learn what effective hp is before complaining.

If anyone ever complains about Riven's E because of the shield and not because of the insane mobility it gives, you know to disregard their opinion.

To directly answer your question about dealing with Riven, the answer is of course the plethora of stronger tanky derps, and AP tanks.

Or just go poppy and laugh as she ults you at 25% health only to get you down to 20.


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FDru

Senior Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MyDeadGrandma View Post
I love the 'AD scaling shield wtf' argument. If she's building AD, guess what she doesn't have high levels of. That's right, armor and mr! Learn what effective hp is before complaining.
Every Riven builds Hexdrinker/Maw and merc treads. She doesn't build much armor but there's hardly any ADs that can stand up to her regardless.

Anyway, Riven isn't what I'd call OP. She's just way too strong for her difficulty level (just like Ryze). She's beatable but needs to be outplayed HARD. Having good support helps, and a balanced team comp. If you make it easy for her to build she's going to have a faceroll win.


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Lopretni

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Senior Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by WowGgPrettyEzTho View Post
Outside of the fact that you probably CAN'T answer my questions on the grounds that there is no real answer that doesn't paint Riven as being out of line, I will instead ask you this:

What part of 6 AD ratios (one of which being an AD SCALING shield!), 4 forms of CC, and 4 gap closers are indicative of a balanced champion?
Don't forget the fact that all of this has absolutely no cost other than cooldowns.

No real point in trying to argue, people will swear up and down that champions that are explicitly broken aren't, for some reason. These are the same people that insist Darius is balanced. I'm not sure if they're ****ing stupid or just sucking Riot's ****.


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Cauldrath

Senior Member

08-06-2012

Itemization-wise, there is no counter to a Riven with Last Whisper. There also isn't a single champion that straight up counters her in duels or teamfights. Your best bet is to go with a team composition with two good ranged damage champs and then position them outside her immediate range. She doesn't have enough gap closer distance to close on a well-positioned ranged champion while dealing with CC from melee champs, so she's kind of forced to fight the melee champs first, then go for the ranged ones once her Q cooldown refreshes, which could be from 7.8 seconds to 13 seconds. During that time, she'll also be dealing less damage than she would if you have a 3-melee comp getting AoEd to death. Once she has 3 Qs and an E off cooldown, she can close on one of your ranged champs and take them out, but if your other one is in a completely different direction, she has to wait 7.8 more seconds to get to them.

The other thing is that her shield can be built to be crazy strong, but it gives her the ability to shrug off a ton of damage over a long period of time (400+ damage every 4 seconds, depending on build, plus armor and mr reduction), rather than be resistant to burst damage. Don't worry about CCing Riven - as long as she gets to move once every 4 seconds, she's good to go, durability-wise, and if she has Maw, well, unless she's dead at the end you get to deal with a super-powered version of Riven with a bunch of cooldowns ready to go. There's lots of times I've eaten a ton of CC as Riven, but then survived long enough to WR the enemy team for 1/3rd of their life anyway. You should worry about hitting her with as much burst damage as possible, but make sure it's enough to kill her before you run out.


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Goronok

Senior Member

08-06-2012

I can 50% or so 1v1 her with my Triforce AD glass cannon Jax if she's good... but I've got to say... not many champs that I have to insert that "50%" with :P

Hell, most champs my AD glass Jax just curb stomps, or gets annoyed at their running, including most Jax of other builds. A good Riven makes me... nervous.

Hell though, I wouldn't call her MORE dangerous than Jax, even with her shield, in a team fight she's effectively less durable, because if focused, Jax has two seconds of AA immune, he has a second AOE stun, and his ult means he can mitigate more damage than that shield absorbs, in the end... while of course Riven can put out some serious AOE with her ult as she does just as much single target... in the end I think they're equal.


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The Fizznity

Senior Member

08-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FDru View Post
Anyway, Riven isn't what I'd call OP. She's just way too strong for her difficulty level (just like Ryze). She's beatable but needs to be outplayed HARD. Having good support helps, and a balanced team comp. If you make it easy for her to build she's going to have a faceroll win.
Ryze is just kinda "Are you mashing buttons? If not, mash buttons." Riven needs managed cooldowns, making sure Q heads in the right direction, and ofcourse weaving in autoattacks seems to be something too many Rivens are bad at. And of course, she's all physical, so has to deal with the annoying "lol i bought 3 chain vests" syndrome people contract upon seeing her. She just looks faceroll because she does incredibly well once you get good at her, kinda like Darius (and he needs skill to not hoover up all the team's gold and make his allies useless)

Now, you want a faceroll bruiser? *looks at Yorick* I got 6-1 (including a double off a gank which by all rights should have killed me) in a Ranked yesterday night by doing nothing but spraying ghouls in the general direction of anyone who got near me. He still needs some sort of nerf/rework, and badly.


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