Need help with Ranged Carry.

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Hasagi Chan

Junior Member

08-05-2012

Hello people, so I've been playing this game for a WHILE now and one day I finally got bored of playing Normal games and decided to try playing Ranked games.
It was then I realized how much I really sucked at this game.

I started to play Ranked games as a Ranged Carry and I really have trouble making decisions on what to do in certain scenarios. Sometimes they end up costing the game for my team and I feel really bad.

The main scenario I've been getting is while team fighting sometimes I get caught out of position and lose at least 4/5 of my health early on the fight.
From here I'm left with two choices...

- Go back, heal and try to come back to mop up
- Or stick around poking uselessly in the team fights waiting to be swept off my feet by a Malphite ult or some other ridiculous dash move.

Another scenario is our outer bottom turret has been knocked down, 5 men are pushing into our mid turret and I'm currently pushing bot with a decent minion wave.
Am I supposed to push down the outer turret or help my team?
I feel like if I try to go to help mid , the team fight would have broken off already and all that time walking to mid was in vain. Every time I decide to push bot instead of helping mid, my team ends up dying miserably and start getting angry at me with constant yellow pings and blue pings.


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Howies Game Shak

Junior Member

08-06-2012

Step 1. BRING A FRIEND.

Seriously, this is probably the most important thing you can do to increase your chance of winning. Better communication (Hopefully he can play support) gives you an advantage over the opposing lane.

Main scenario: Stay way behind the team when initiating, and you've got to work your way into the fight. If they save everything for you, you could buy a guardian angel, or just kinda stick out of the fight. If they don't use their ults waiting to use it on you, they won't really win a team fight. Also lifesteal will help here, and i've been forced into situations where i'm held down and my lifesteal alone was keeping me alive.

Scenario 2: If you're the ad carry, you are vital to your team. A dead team is definitely not worth a tower. Although your team should try to avoid any conflict when a full team is not present, they may catch them by using an ult or something and force a fight. In that case you should at least try to get there and pick some off, and the best thing you can say is that you tried.


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Hirumonogatari

Senior Member

08-06-2012

my honest opinion is that if your bot turret is down, your farming phase is over. same as if you push down the opposing bot tower. hence why i try not to push towers unless absolutely necessary.

minions waves are easy to push. as long as they are not attacking your tower, you should go help out your team. even if there isn't a team fight, you should not stay at bot once the creeps are off your 2nd tower. this is because pushing the lane is dangerous. you no longer have the outer turret to cover your back, and you get ganked easily because they have more access to your lane and jungle.


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VoiceOfUnreason

Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaphImichi View Post
The main scenario I've been getting is while team fighting sometimes I get caught out of position and lose at least 4/5 quarters of my health early on the fight.
From here I'm left with two choices...

- Go back, heal and try to come back to mop up
- Or stick around poking uselessly in the team fights waiting to be swept off my feet by a Malphite ult or some other ridiculous dash move.
Part of the answer here is to learn to keep track of what's been used, and keep a running mental clock of the enemy cooldowns. Ya, I can't do it either.

Also - I'm to busy during a fight to evaluate a fight/flight decision. My only chance is to make a decision one way or the other before the fight begins; and then commit to that course of action. It should help to be checking regularly how well your teammates are doing, to get a feel if they are stronger or weaker than their counterparts.

My feeling is that I run more often than I should. In an environment where the team has good, quick communication, the team can fall back as a unit. In solos, where communication is done by pinging/typing, and where teammates don't have any great trust of each other's judgment, there's a lot more inertia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaphImichi View Post
Another scenario is our outer bottom turret has been knocked down, 5 men are pushing into our mid turret and I'm currently pushing bot with a decent minion wave.
Am I supposed to push down the outer turret or help my team?
Well, if you aren't supposed to push the outer turret, you probably shouldn't be out there anyway.

That said, you should probably look back a little bit further than that. The odds are good that the enemy team didn't all just teleport to the mid tower. So either the enemy team was seen advancing on mid tower (because your team is warding, right? yeah, I'm joking), or the enemy team was missing from the map. In that position, before you start pushing out, you need to make some decisions about how far you can go and still get back in time to make a difference. And when you reach that point, you need to commit one way or the other.

That said, the parley isn't great -- your upside is that 4+tower can hold their own vs 5, and you get a free tower. Against that are the outcomes that your team loses the 4v5 (either by failing to defend well, or by over extending), or that you get picked before you get the tower. That said, there's not a lot of merit in waiting to lose.

To some degree, you can mitigate some of the rage by communicating with your team before you set out. Mind you, you are describing a losing or lost position, so it's probably inevitable anyway -- just a matter of where they each decide blame lies.


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Snaketeeth01

Senior Member

08-06-2012

consider the advantage of movespeed quints, boots of swiftness, and movespeed masteries.
They cant hurt you if they can't touch you.

Also getting zeal into your early game will help your evasion as well as attack speed for added DPS.

Do not rush IE as first item. Even if you manage to complete it you have spent all your gold on an item that is aonly effective on your AA's. The ad can help on your skills taht scale on ad, but the crit, and effect mean nothing.
Your also ignoring your champs weaknesses like hp, movespeed, attackspeed and mana.

Find one adc you love and do well with, and play them inside out til you know everything about them.
Learn what items you can get to fit into their need's, while not "wasting" your gold.
Learn how to play with no gold.

Learn to control minion flow, when to poke, when to farm, when to push/pull wave.
Keep your eye on enemy jungler, if he is top, push your lane but be aware of when he will come.

Denying your enemy is just as effective as feeding yourself.

One thing I can tell you right now that you may have learned..
Youc annot rely on your teamate's to have any skill whatsoever.
Every game you ever play, do not rely on them for a single thing, and do not expect them to be good.

When a team fight break's out, you are the adc. Your gonna be focused because you have low hp, little escape, little cc, your a pretty easy target.
So you know that you are gonna get hit.
Your team however, do not care about protecting you or keeping you alive, they just think about setting you up for a kill so that you can autoattack, and kill them.
With that in mind, you have to keep yourself alive.

You will have to learn how to kite like crazy.
So when you have a good early game and have a decent K/D, you will be focused.
If you have a bad K/d, and are weak, you will be focused.
Either way, your teamate's will not be protecting you, get used to it.
So when you kite kite kite, poke, kite, poke, stay alive, dodge, and somehow survive a massive onslught yet you only manage to get 3 assists.
You will get no praise, and no gold reward.
Even though it was your staying alive and being a distraction that won the fight.
But if you kite kite kite, poke, kite, poke, stay alive, dodge, then die, you are noob and they will look at your build, and tell you how your doing it wrong.

If you are being zoned early game, cannot farm, u get killed, killed again, now you are at a disadvantaeg. The enemy has lane ocntrol, which mean's youa re playing defensive and it will take more effort, just to farm. So even if you can keep and even CS and stay alive for 4 minutes before you die, you will still be a noob.
When your early game goes bad and you don't have large item's, you know you won't do alot of damage.
But when your top looks at the score and see's your team is 10-9, he will overcommit to a fight because he see's your champ and expect's you to do alot of damage. Meanwhile he will put forth 0 effort in keeping you alive.
Now he will die, you will die, other's will die, and the enemy get's all the bonus gold from killstreak's because of his overcommit. But you will be blamed for being a bad adc because you don't have an IE.

Whatever you do it will alway's be wrong.
If your team is winning, and you are winning, nobody will tell you how good you are, or see how your build/runes/and masteries are working for you. Because people only look at K/D (never assists or cs). And most people only use one cookie cutter build on a champion, and anything outside of that is just not allowed.

I build a chalice on my cvait because i know, I can poke with my skill's, and if I am out in the field a long time i will go oom. Without mana, I have no skill's, I know this. So i buy chalice, and never oom, i also get MR from it.
Yet everytime I buy chalice and my team is losing, I never hear the end of how I don't know how to play caitlyn or adc, and i'm an idiot for buying chalice.
And yet with chalice and BT, my bar's don't go down. I know this, because I have over well over 200 games with her, 100 of them being ranked.

I main adc and I know how to bait. I know how to control minion flow, I know how to zone, I know how to counter my enemy, and I know how to setup my own kill's.
My 4 random teamate's however, do not know how I do all of these thing's, and they can screw me up, and then blame me for it.

If you know how to push and pull your lane, you can farm safely and make yourself a target for the enemy jungler. But when he comes u pull back and waste his time.
Now he is not getting gold or xp.. meanwhile your top lane still is.
So when the enemy jungler goes to hit top, he can't because he is underpowered. Now when he return's to your lane he is underpowered.
And just by being a strong adc bot and knowing how to control your lane, you can deny a jungler's entire game.
It's honestly not hard to do this, all it take's is a support that know's what he is doing. Which at my elo is extremely rare.

I've carried myself over 200 elo playing adc. And I've had my teamate's *****ing all me all along the way.
You will elarn to just hit the ignore button as soon as the game start's.
I have played alot of game's in complete silence and have done better.

If you "need" too look left at your chat box to see mia, than you can look right on your map to see your own mia's. Beside's if your teamte's were worth anything, they wouldnt type it risking their own cs, and having u miss the text. they would ping.
But again, something I never see at this elo.

In ranked if you want to win you have to play 1v5, and eventually you will learn to do it.

Many many many times I have had my teamates over commit to a fight just because I am there.
just because I am there playing champ X they think I will do this this, then this.
But they do not know my masteries, cooldown's, runes, what skill's i have leveled.
They just expect me to commit to their fight, and then ***** at me when I don't follow through.
Maybe if they would just relax, play around their CARRY, then the CARRY, could CARRY them to a win.
Hmm.. interesting how that work's.

If u want to learn lane control, play with me. I would say spec, but I have alot of people throw my lane away by 3 minute's and then ***** at me in minute 14 cuz I'm doing bad.
Just hit ignore, hate elo hell, and work 6 time's harder than you should to get your win.
I do it all the time.


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VoiceOfUnreason

Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaketeeth01 View Post
Learn to control minion flow, when to poke, when to farm, when to push/pull wave.
Pulling this out for emphasis. If you learn to freeze the lane - which means slow farming, so that the enemy wave outnumbers yours enough to counter your last hits - then you can get your farming done while (a) staying safe and (b) being close enough to the main action that you can join the fight in time to make a difference.


Also worth noting Snaketeeth's second point: if you suck (as your raging teammates contend), and they are in your ELO, then they suck too - so why should you assume that their advice is any good?


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Hasagi Chan

Junior Member

08-06-2012

Thank you very much everyone, I will help my team more now during mid pushes.
As for the tip about not rushing Infinity edge I will try to build a Zeal after B.F Sword according to the team composition and their advantages


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Lord Puppy Fury

Senior Member

08-06-2012

I wouldn't recommend solo queuing in ranked. At the very least, find a partner who can play support to queue with. You're going to set the stage for winning or losing about 10 minutes into the game. When I'm ADC, I know I need 2000 gold by 10 minutes to be on target with my build. This means I need 2 kills or a kill and an assist in the first 10 minutes, plus decent farm. I can't do this if I have a support who stands by the tower and drools. So, if you're going to play ranked as ADC, I really, really recommend you have a support you know how to work with queue with you.

Also, I don't know how you build, but I highly recommend two Doran's early game. I see a lot of carries only take one, or wait for the pick axe instead. Two Doran's is only 5 damage less than a pick axe, they'll give you a nice health boost, and, when combined with a Vamp Scepter, will let you heal back ~20 HP with every auto attack.

As for team fights, they are such an art, but I've been working on surviving them so I'll offer my two cents.

1. Come in late. If the enemy team is punching through your initiator and/or tank to get to you, come in even later. Be aware of what they can see on the maps - mini and regular. If you're just out of sight in the jungle, you're ready for the team fight, but the enemies can't see you to focus you first.

2. Master the strategic retreat. Disengaging to back up to safety and then reengaging when the enemies are focused elsewhere can turn into an Ace. If you've got life steal (which you should), backing up and then targeting a distracted enemy can let you heal yourself up while taking them down.

3. Try to get to their squishies in the back. If you can attack through a wall or flank their team, you can nuke their damage dealers. The is SO situational and has as much to do with where the team fight is on the map as it does with any strategy or positioning. For example, in a head on fight in front of Baron, this probably won't work. In a fight between the walls mid, where the outer turret is, it might. Additionally, if their damage dealer is retreating, you might be able to dart through their team, get the kill, and run off through the jungle to break line of sight before popping back into the fight. Again, this depends on about 1,000 different factors to pull off, but it can be devastating.


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FlowyS

Senior Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaphImichi View Post
I've been getting is while team fighting sometimes I get caught out of position and lose at least 4/5 of my health early on the fight.

Another scenario is our outer bottom turret has been knocked down, 5 men are pushing into our mid turret and I'm currently pushing bot with a decent minion wave.
Am I supposed to push down the outer turret or help my team?
1. Go back and tell your team to fall back. If they insist on going 4 vs 5, it is their fault.

2. Depends. If your team can stall for 2 mins on 4 vs 5, start pushing bot like crazy. If your teammates will get tower dived and die, it is best to tell teammates to fall back and you teleport back to the base. Predict what will happen!


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OdinLegend

Member

08-07-2012

Lets go over the AD Carry Priorities:
1. Farm Farm Farm even if you are kills behind, your gold from cs guarantees you to get closer to your build, rather than taking a chance fighting someone ahead of you when you already lost to them at even ground.
2. Stay back! Survive! You are getting zoned out, denied of cs, if you give them kills you give them the game too.
-During lane if you are losing play as safe as you can, dont give them kills and wait for help/jungle or if anything, they might make a bad play (everyone makes mistakes) and if you see the opening go for it.
-During clashes stay away from the bruisers, they are aiming you! doesnt matter if ur in the back doing nothing, wait until their focus is on someone else like your tank then poke them. DO NOT go for the carries. Carries are high priority but your job hit to poke anyone you can from safe distance even if it means atking the tank. Going out your way to try and hit a vayne/graves/ez hiding behind and Alistar will only get you killed.
3. Never roam alone without wards or your team in front, UNLESS you can see your enemies on the map, which is usually early lane phase.
4. I don't really know anymore xD but here's one i made up, ADC always gets the red buff and should get every chance you have. it's 100% slow for AA and true damage DoT and makes the difference when finishing off foes

In your situation, there's a big wave of minions bot lane, but the entire enemy is pushing mid, it would be best to get to your team as fast as you can, and they SHOULD NOT start a clash knowing you are not there yet. If enemy team tries to start a fight, your team should be under turret and they should be fine for a bit, at least until you get there.

Now for during ranked pick, you need to know who counters who or which support works best with you. If you play strong burst carries like Graves, Ez, Corki then Blitz, Leona, Taric, Alistar would make a good aggressive lane. Janna is a good support overall and would be good to choose if u see the enemy team has those supports mentioned above. Nunu also makes a good support but the ones i mentioned are best for easy early game play so i wont get into every other support

The rest is up to your skill level and experience playing vs other champs. If you are not doing so well in ranked, play more normal games and practice. I also suggest learning other roles too if u wanna be serious in ranked, because AD carry is my favorite too, but i know i wont get to pick them all the time and when i get left with the other roles, i must do them well