if you insist on 0cs support, then make more item options to build gp5 into

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Driaga

Senior Member

08-05-2012

I'm generally a support player and as much as I hate the 0cs support meta where you are nothing but a buff giver and ward bot, its clearly the most effective way to play at the moment.

So what I'm suggesting and have heard many others suggest as well is to make more items that the gold per 5 items can build into. In particular, more AP oriented items, it would be nice to have more than 25AP by endgame, especially on a healing aupport.

The items wouldn't be that hard to design or balance, and you could make the building path investment heavy enough to prevent abuse by other classes.

Philo stone + blasting wand -

Frozen heart + null mantle + tome -

Kages lucky pick + catalyst + manager manipulator-

Etc

If there is no desire to change the meta then atleast provide more item options for supports to make it more enjoyable and give them the ability to see how their champ impact fights in a clearer way.

I'd love to hear some feedback from the community about some item combination ideas and ideas for new items that would help make supports more fun


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Xela Syab

Senior Member

08-05-2012

I think gold 5 items should just build into aura items which is really what a true support is about. It would make them less viable for other characters like offtanks and junglers grabbing the items. I'd remove HoG off of Randuins Omen and switch it with a Kindlegem and increase the CDR and put it on Aegis of Legion and reduce the combine cost. I'd take Kages Lucky pick off of Morello's and Deathfire Grasp, and put it on WoTa and reduce the spellvamp aura and make a seperate dedicated spellvamp item and put it on Soul Shroud so it can also have some ap on it, I think Phil stone is in a great place but I'd change Elesia's Blessing to have a minor Tenacity Aura like +10 or so, I'd change Avarice Blade to be made out of a Dagger instead of brawlers gloves, and attach it to Zeke's Herald and rework Youmuu's Ghostblade to have an armor penetration aura.


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Driaga

Senior Member

08-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xela Syab View Post
I think gold 5 items should just build into aura items which is really what a true support is about. It would make them less viable for other characters like offtanks and junglers grabbing the items. I'd remove HoG off of Randuins Omen and switch it with a Kindlegem and increase the CDR and put it on Aegis of Legion and reduce the combine cost. I'd take Kages Lucky pick off of Morello's and Deathfire Grasp, and put it on WoTa and reduce the spellvamp aura and make a seperate dedicated spellvamp item and put it on Soul Shroud so it can also have some ap on it, I think Phil stone is in a great place but I'd change Elesia's Blessing to have a minor Tenacity Aura like +10 or so, I'd change Avarice Blade to be made out of a Dagger instead of brawlers gloves, and attach it to Zeke's Herald and rework Youmuu's Ghostblade to have an armor penetration aura.
All of those are awesome ideas and would change the impact and feel of having a support around. The main issue is that your become a ward bot, people say whatever they want about the supposed jobs of a support, the most important part of you bring there is map awareness. Any support with shields or heals dramatically fall off after early game and if your ADC dies in lane then your long CD heals don't even heal for enough to counter poke damage.

They need to make mor pure support items or a utility talent that gives gold for standing near creep kills (flat amount each but only when allies kill them). Thus allowing you to build other items but still ward the map

The complete lack of variety in the builds is ruining the enjoyment of supports


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axesandspears

Senior Member

08-05-2012

The more that support items "require" a gp10 item for the recipe, the worse it will actually become for supports.

This is because those gp10 items are the source of income for Wards and items; with each gp10 item providing the gold for 1 ward every 3 minutes with 15 extra gold. Forcing supports to sacrifice the gp10 items in their inventory for good support item options actually weakens the supports, because it requires an early replacement of the lost gp10 item.

Items like Aegis of the Legion, Frozen Heart, Soulshroud, etc are actually much better designed for a support.


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mrocznykiciak

Senior Member

08-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by axesandspears View Post
(...)
defaq?
In late game there is less need of GP10 since:
- minions are worth more
- the kills goes more often
- carries got the toys so dont mind if you clear one wave

Back to topic: I agree that there should be more fancy support items = aura items.
Like something good giving mana and hp around. (mix of emblem and mana manipulator)
Maybe some item which can literally heal - like restore 300HP over 5sec.
Aura item which lowers the Armor of enemies around.


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axesandspears

Senior Member

08-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrocznykiciak View Post
defaq?
In late game there is less need of GP10 since:
- minions are worth more
- the kills goes more often
- carries got the toys so dont mind if you clear one wave

Back to topic: I agree that there should be more fancy support items = aura items.
Like something good giving mana and hp around. (mix of emblem and mana manipulator)
Maybe some item which can literally heal - like restore 300HP over 5sec.
Aura item which lowers the Armor of enemies around.
Sorry, I'll clear that up for you:

MORE options for gp10 items to build into is not a good thing, because it requires supports to either sacrifice gp10 early, or build duplicate gp10 items that will not provide gold because the passive is unique per item-of-type and "weaken" the support because those gp10 items are specifically "weak" for their cost. With the "duplicate" option, the support will be "weakened" until he/she has finished the upgraded item. This would be a problem in the early-mid game, not the very late-game.

It is preferable to have good items that do not upgrade from gp10 for most of a support's build, and there is already a very good selection of support items like this.

What you might want are "better" support items, but support items really are good enough for the purpose and most effects that players would suggest for them would be overpowered. The heal you just suggested would be a problem, but Riot is already planning to re-introduce another item with an armor-reduction aura.


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Driaga

Senior Member

08-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by axesandspears View Post
Sorry, I'll clear that up for you:

MORE options for gp10 items to build into is not a good thing, because it requires supports to either sacrifice gp10 early, or build duplicate gp10 items that will not provide gold because the passive is unique per item-of-type and "weaken" the support because those gp10 items are specifically "weak" for their cost. With the "duplicate" option, the support will be "weakened" until he/she has finished the upgraded item. This would be a problem in the early-mid game, not the very late-game.

It is preferable to have good items that do not upgrade from gp10 for most of a support's build, and there is already a very good selection of support items like this.

What you might want are "better" support items, but support items really are good enough for the purpose and most effects that players would suggest for them would be overpowered. The heal you just suggested would be a problem, but Riot is already planning to re-introduce another item with an armor-reduction aura.
I know its a worst item creation and promotes the dependency but they don't seem to be pulling away from current meta any time soon.

The only real option is a mastery that gives gold for allies killing.creeps within range ( I mada thread in general about it) bit that still doesn't fix tbr lack of support items as a whole.


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axesandspears

Senior Member

08-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Driaga View Post
I know its a worst item creation and promotes the dependency but they don't seem to be pulling away from current meta any time soon.

The only real option is a mastery that gives gold for allies killing.creeps within range ( I mada thread in general about it) bit that still doesn't fix tbr lack of support items as a whole.
The existence of gp10 items is not a problem, but trying to add more **** for them to build into is not "helping" anything. That is my point.

Furthermore, there is no lack of support items. You personally might not be able to recognize items as "good" for the role of a support, but there are plenty of utility items that a support player can use to great effect.....quite a bit more than the slot limit already.


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mrocznykiciak

Senior Member

08-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by axesandspears View Post
...
I undedrstood your way of thinking at the 1st time, but it still make no sense.
In worst case scenerio u have: Boots + Philo Item + Hog Item + another HoG since HP is always good + some random item + ward slot.
If you used your old gp10 item just buy a fresh one if you need it.


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Driaga

Senior Member

08-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by axesandspears View Post
The existence of gp10 items is not a problem, but trying to add more **** for them to build into is not "helping" anything. That is my point.

Furthermore, there is no lack of support items. You personally might not be able to recognize items as "good" for the role of a support, but there are plenty of utility items that a support player can use to great effect.....quite a bit more than the slot limit already.
I recognize the items just fine, point is you don't get to build any of them because you usually end up within SR, HoG, lucky pick and maybe one aura item.

I would love to build soul shroud, RoA, unholy graill , etc but that requires gold which you won't get without stealing cs.

Try building lulu, soraka or sona with about 250AP and aura/defense items...it feels like an entirely different champ. Its in those games that I get 40+ assists and your team gives you props on saving them so many times. Those are the games that make you want to play a support again, not ward bottling and dying in 2 secs late game


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