ashe or sivir?

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loeschs

Junior Member

08-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyTheBanana View Post
Honestly, any champ is VIABLE. It's just a question of who's a bit better than the others. I haven't played much Caitlyn, but she's unappealing to me because her slow casting animations mean that she cannot enhance her damage with abilities during late game. Yes she has range, but Tristana's late game range is at least 50 higher than Cait's anyway, AND all four of her abilities can add to her damage. As anyone will tell you, Caitlyn's one strength is winning her lane. But the benefit of that seems rather mitigated if she doesn't have a good late game anyway.
ok thanks


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Alaidia

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Member

08-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyTheBanana View Post
I have played about 70 games with Ashe and 30 games with Sivir at the 1000~ Elo level, and let me tell you: don't play either. Ashe's focus is on utility rather than damage, and Sivir's ult is mostly just for team fights. I am assuming you are inexperienced, but if you want to win games in solo queue, then you're looking to carry your team of noobs like a boss, and you're not going to do that with utility and team steroids. You want to crush your lane, roam, and be so fed by late game that you win any team fight in which you can stay alive for more than five seconds. I'd recommend Tristana or Corki since they have both high damage and a powerful escape.
No offence, but I'll be honest. Don't listen to this guy... he never should have given you his credentials. 1000 elo is quite low and 70 / 30 games played is also quite low to give you such a rounded and understated opinion. Ashe was used in the Warsaw Tourny finals because she is an amazing carry. She has slows; that passive for early harrass; a great, LONG, global ult; another passive that increase gold gain which is also a free few second ward every minute; and a decent poke with her w. Ashe is great if you're starting as an ADC and want someone who can get a kill post 6. She's simple fun and her visual rework is amazing so shes beautiful in game.

Sivir is also great. She has a wonder spellshield to prevent some nasty damage (looking at you Karhus), a great farming kit with her Q and ...W? or is it E? either way she has 2 farming spells, her Ult is a quick tower tower knock down and a great chase mechanic, it can even be used for escape if need be! Sivir is also quite used in tourny play but I notice she is very underplayed in normal games and ranked (that last comment is purely my opinion however with nothing to back it up on). Sivir is, like Ashe, a decent carry to start with bc her kit is fairly simple, but powerful when you learn to use it. Sivir deff has a higher skillcap than Ashe but practice at either of them and you could easily top the damage in any respective game.

BTW I recommend Ashe I recently got my gf on LoL and she loves everything about Ashe and so do I. Something about having the first crit of the game in the face of the enemy Graves feels good.


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BillyTheBanana

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Junior Member

08-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaidia View Post
No offence, but I'll be honest. Don't listen to this guy... he never should have given you his credentials. 1000 elo is quite low and 70 / 30 games played is also quite low to give you such a rounded and understated opinion. Ashe was used in the Warsaw Tourny finals because she is an amazing carry. She has slows; that passive for early harrass; a great, LONG, global ult; another passive that increase gold gain which is also a free few second ward every minute; and a decent poke with her w. Ashe is great if you're starting as an ADC and want someone who can get a kill post 6. She's simple fun and her visual rework is amazing so shes beautiful in game.

Sivir is also great. She has a wonder spellshield to prevent some nasty damage (looking at you Karhus), a great farming kit with her Q and ...W? or is it E? either way she has 2 farming spells, her Ult is a quick tower tower knock down and a great chase mechanic, it can even be used for escape if need be! Sivir is also quite used in tourny play but I notice she is very underplayed in normal games and ranked (that last comment is purely my opinion however with nothing to back it up on). Sivir is, like Ashe, a decent carry to start with bc her kit is fairly simple, but powerful when you learn to use it. Sivir deff has a higher skillcap than Ashe but practice at either of them and you could easily top the damage in any respective game.

BTW I recommend Ashe I recently got my gf on LoL and she loves everything about Ashe and so do I. Something about having the first crit of the game in the face of the enemy Graves feels good.
I agree with all of this. Like I said, ANY champion is viable. I probably used overly hyperbolic language that implied that Ashe and Sivir are horrible or something. They're absolutely fine just like any adc, just not the best for low-Elo solo queue imo.


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Judas Priest

Senior Member

08-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaidia View Post
No offence, but I'll be honest. Don't listen to this guy... he never should have given you his credentials. 1000 elo is quite low and 70 / 30 games played is also quite low to give you such a rounded and understated opinion. Ashe was used in the Warsaw Tourny finals because she is an amazing carry. She has slows; that passive for early harrass; a great, LONG, global ult; another passive that increase gold gain which is also a free few second ward every minute; and a decent poke with her w. Ashe is great if you're starting as an ADC and want someone who can get a kill post 6. She's simple fun and her visual rework is amazing so shes beautiful in game.

Sivir is also great. She has a wonder spellshield to prevent some nasty damage (looking at you Karhus), a great farming kit with her Q and ...W? or is it E? either way she has 2 farming spells, her Ult is a quick tower tower knock down and a great chase mechanic, it can even be used for escape if need be! Sivir is also quite used in tourny play but I notice she is very underplayed in normal games and ranked (that last comment is purely my opinion however with nothing to back it up on). Sivir is, like Ashe, a decent carry to start with bc her kit is fairly simple, but powerful when you learn to use it. Sivir deff has a higher skillcap than Ashe but practice at either of them and you could easily top the damage in any respective game.

BTW I recommend Ashe I recently got my gf on LoL and she loves everything about Ashe and so do I. Something about having the first crit of the game in the face of the enemy Graves feels good.
Totally.


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PlayWithMe69

Senior Member

08-04-2012

Going to give something good on Sivir since everyone has been saying Ashe.

Sivir: Early game harras and attack/movement speed steroid. Her ult makes her a better late game carry in terms of just auto attacking. Also if you have another player on your team who does most of their damage with auto-attacks you're adding more damage for your team.

Another thing. Sivir is an amazing pusher/back door champion. Her Q + W combo clears waves so fast. Taking teleport wouldn't be a bad option. Since her W is on a low cooldown, a late trinity force isn't a bad idea. This makes her tankier and less prone to burst damage. Which is another thing about sivir I'd like to point out.

Sivir's E is basically her **** you to mages, cc, and pesky AD casters down bot. It's your get out of jail free card if you're ever in a bad position.

Sooooo yea. I vote for sivir.


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Camerlango

Junior Member

08-04-2012

Both are easy champions to learn, are really cheap, and very viable, so buy them both if you can. Ashe has more utility, but Sivir has the third highest base damage for a ranged carry (after Graves and Vayne respectively).

Personally, I prefer Sivir though - her passive is amazing for escaping and chasing. In conjunction with her ult, its like a ghost on a shorter cooldown. Her boomerang blade gives decent 'burst damage', and once you get the hang of auto attack-ricochet-auto attack you can win most trades. Her E (spell shield) is one of the best spells in the game, it allows you to block one spell for 75 mana, and receive 150 mana in return. Once you familiarise yourself with the other spells, you have really good lane sustain. It becomes very easy to block spells that have a slow missile speed/long animations, such as Nunu's ice block attack is pretty easy to block, as well as Malphite's rolling Q spell. Karthus' and Caitlyn's ult are easy to block (make sure spellshield is not on cd when this happens), and Blitzcranks grab (he stops briefly, then the hand pops out) is also easy to block. Also, Sivir has a very strong ult (as/ms boost utility) that provides a decent steroid for chasing, or during teamfights to give your team the upper hand!


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Judas Priest

Senior Member

08-04-2012

Someone said you should buy both, and you really should do it. Both of them are great and cheap, they only cost 450 IP - the cheapest price a champion can have.


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BunnyShade

Member

08-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayWithMe69 View Post
Going to give something good on Sivir since everyone has been saying Ashe.

Sivir: Early game harras and attack/movement speed steroid. Her ult makes her a better late game carry in terms of just auto attacking. Also if you have another player on your team who does most of their damage with auto-attacks you're adding more damage for your team.

Another thing. Sivir is an amazing pusher/back door champion. Her Q + W combo clears waves so fast. Taking teleport wouldn't be a bad option. Since her W is on a low cooldown, a late trinity force isn't a bad idea. This makes her tankier and less prone to burst damage. Which is another thing about sivir I'd like to point out.

Sivir's E is basically her **** you to mages, cc, and pesky AD casters down bot. It's your get out of jail free card if you're ever in a bad position.

Sooooo yea. I vote for sivir.
I want to say i agree and also add that. To many of you guys pik your characters on boob size (jk) and the ability to get "kills"
when really you should be asking yourself, how can i make my team work??? SIVIR IS THE BEST PUSHER imo. I leave my team to distract in mid and i go and eat the turrets up. one game i went mid and becuase my harras is so good i pushed mid to the base in the first 25 min.... we at 31 min. it was amazing,


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FaerellG

Senior Member

08-04-2012

Both are excellent champions. I personally play Sivir a lot more because I like Spell Shield and I like being able to push really hard.

There are a lot more similarities than most people would first notice between the two champions, but here's a list of pros/cons between the two:

Sivir:
Sivir deals more damage both in terms of Burst potential and in terms of sustained damage. Between BB and Ricochet (resetting auto attack timer) and her Ultimate boosting her attack speed, Sivir just plain scales better damage-wise. Ashe only has her Volley to increase her damage as her passive is only applicable on the first attack of an engagement. Additionally, Sivir's damage is mostly AoE so she deals a solid amount of damage to the entire team.

Sivir has better pushing capability. Sure, Ashe's volley is AoE, but it's blocked by line of effect, while Sivir's BB just plows through everything and her Ricochet bounces everywhere (even capable of harassing opponents way outside of normal auto attack range). Aside from that, W resets her auto attack timer, and her ultimate boosts not just herself, and allies, but also minions allowing her to tear down towers. Sivir is the queen of pushing. You will be hard pressed to find a superior pushing champion.

Sivir has better survivability and sustain. Spell Shield is amazing. I love blocking Cho and Garren ultis with it. They think they got an execute down? Too bad, it's wasted it. Mastering spell shield will make your opponents rage as you intercept skill shots meant for your allies and save them while sustaining yourself with mana. Then you take that mana and in turn use it to chuck a BB as a huge nuke.

Ashe:
Ashe can initiate for your team. She's one of the rare ranged ADs that has a hard CC. It's a long duration one too. Sivir lacks any form of CC contribution to the team without picking up a Phage or Red Buff. Additionally, Ashe also has a couple of options to perma-slow opponents.

Ashe also has Hawkshot which greatly benefits your team's map awareness. It's a shorter ranged CV, and CV is boss despite the nerfs. I mean, you ward right? Wards save lives. Guess, what, so does Hawkshot. It also has the added benefit of gold acceleration.

Ashe's attack range is significantly longer which benefits her in a multitude of ways. It keeps her at a much safer distance. It's much better than Sivir who has the shortest attack range in the game. So Ashe can sit back and plink at opponents, while Sivir has to get closer into the thick of things and rely on spell shield to survive.

Tradeoff:
Ashe packs slows, Sivir packs move speed (and a team MS buff).

Both champs bring good utility to the team. Sivir is definitely the better damage dealer both in terms of personal damage output and boosting allied damage output, but Ashe has some unique tools in her kit that you'll be hard pressed to find in other Ranged ADs.

Conclusion:
Buy both. They're 450 IP a piece. Very inexpensive, and both are excellent choices.


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Etherimp

Senior Member

08-04-2012

What Faerell G said.

Buy both. I prefer Sivir, but I haven't played Ashe in forever.

Caitlyn is also good.

Caitlyn shuts down kill lanes (and non-sustain lanes) if she has a sustain carry. She can out-harass/poke/zone most bot lane champions/comps.

Ashe is good if she has a good peeler on the team. Someone to tank and keep enemies from diving her.

Sivir is a great pusher and has an unexpected amount of burst damage.. Oh, and her shield is a nightmare for a lot of comps to deal with. (She hard counters Caitlyn, for example.)