Can we get a nerf to dedicated backdooring?

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AO Alt

Senior Member

08-05-2012

If one believes that Riot won't nerf something because it isn't OP, said person is a fool.
The reason why they won't nerf it is because Dom just isn't of interest to Riot.
To give some reasons to my claim:
Was Eve ever OP in high ELO SR? No. Was she nerfed repeatedly? Yes. Why? 'Cause she was "anti-fun", and she "stomped in low-elo games".

What similarities are there between dedicated backdooring in Dom and old Eve? Answer: they're both incredibly anti-fun (Riot's term, and I can't help but agree), and both strats are incredibly overpowered in low elo and uncoordinated games.
Let's face it, if people don't know how to deal with it at the highest Dom Elo in pup games, it is still "strong" for pup games.
To say that it'll be a 5v4 if you ever kill the BDer is a logical statement. However, if it is a zilean you're chasing you won't *ever* catch and kill him 1v1 if the game goes past 10 minutes. It's nigh impossible even as two. And as zilean it is much easier to just haste and ult someone near the top / middle and then go back to backdooring. It won't stop you at all.

Bottom line, it's easy to counter if one person on the "defending" team is willing to do nothing but chase for an entire game (I've done it three times, and I'm never doing it again). At least I play this game for Pvp, not for PVE. If I want to run around for minutes at end, I'd play SR, not Dom.

TLDR:
Riot won't nerf it because they don't care about Dom, otherwise it'd been nerfed ages ago
It is overpowered in non 4-5mans since it is unlikely that someone will sacrifice their fun for just the potential of a win. Plus, few people know how to counter it in pub games. And finally, it is anti-fun, the very essence of Riot's nerfs.


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inFe eD

Senior Member

08-05-2012

Eve got nerfed solely because Soraka Bot on the EU server figured out how to jungle her effectively. She was the best ganking jungle in the game for a good month or so. This isn't "low elo", Soraka Bot hit #1 on the EU servers doing this.

The difference is, dedicated backdooring was "solved" ages ago in high elo. It's rarely, if ever, effective against good players anymore.


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irott

Senior Member

08-05-2012

"Backdooring" is not a problem to be solved, but a strategy to be countered.


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Orphane

Senior Member

08-05-2012

Playing as POOTERSS zilean it's also equally likely that your teammates are so bad you are more of a threat to the enemy team. Then it ends up becoming that they are able to defend against your teammates despite the numerical advantage you're supposed to be giving them in forcing 1-2 people to chase you around.


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AO Alt

Senior Member

08-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by inFe eD View Post
Eve got nerfed solely because Soraka Bot on the EU server figured out how to jungle her effectively. She was the best ganking jungle in the game for a good month or so. This isn't "low elo", Soraka Bot hit #1 on the EU servers doing this.
Yes, I remember. She was still kinda useless in ranked games at that point. SorakaBot did this in solo queue, where it is less likely that players play effective counters, and actually counter it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by inFe eD View Post
The difference is, dedicated backdooring was "solved" ages ago in high elo. It's rarely, if ever, effective against good players anymore.
Well, I guess I'm not top 5 like I used to be (Back when JabeBot was still running), as I took a break for 2 months or so (elo drop), but I still play with more or less the same people I played with before, many whom I deem to be good players (Fist of Heaven, MMKH, Wawix, Apar, etc). Yet, even at this elo (top 100ish?), barely 20% of the players know how to counter it, and less than 50% of those actually want to dedicate an entire game to chasing.
The best example I have of something similar in any game is 6pool rush in SC2. Requires close to 0 skill, and stomps low-skill players like hell. But you never improve by using it, and one only uses it in order to abuse. Difference is, in SC2 it doesn't really make the game less fun for the person if he can counter it, whilst in Dom it is incredibly unfun to chase someone for 20 minutes without a pause.
Skill require? Nope
Item build decisions require? Nope
Stragegy involved? Nope.
Tell me, why is Riot still letting this be a viable method to play in pubs? Oh, because they don't care about Dom, that's why.


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irott

Senior Member

08-05-2012

How is there no strategy?

Misdirection is one of the best strategies there is. That is why ganks work because you are focused elsewhere.


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inFe eD

Senior Member

08-05-2012

Quote:
Difference is, in SC2 it doesn't really make the game less fun for the person if he can counter it, whilst in Dom it is incredibly unfun to chase someone for 20 minutes without a pause.
Actually, a teammate of mine, Painkillar, says chasing POOTER is the most fun he's ever had playing Dominion. I also enjoy the chase; it's a constant mindgame between you and the backcapper, and punishes you heavily if you have bad map awareness/reaction time, and I will always be giggling to myself constantly while I chase the crazy old guy in circles around the map. Fun is subjective, and makes for a poor argument.

As for the skill/strategy aspect, playing with a backcapper on your team is completely different from playing a normal game. I've lost plenty of games as a backcapper because teammates simply will not or are incapable of adapting to playing the game as if it were 3v3. It's one of the few attempts in solo queue to break the stale 4 top 1 bot meta, and to say it takes no strategy is pretty asinine.


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Infirc

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Senior Member

08-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AO Alt View Post
Yes, I remember. She was still kinda useless in ranked games at that point. SorakaBot did this in solo queue, where it is less likely that players play effective counters, and actually counter it.


Well, I guess I'm not top 5 like I used to be (Back when JabeBot was still running), as I took a break for 2 months or so (elo drop), but I still play with more or less the same people I played with before, many whom I deem to be good players (Fist of Heaven, MMKH, Wawix, Apar, etc). Yet, even at this elo (top 100ish?), barely 20% of the players know how to counter it, and less than 50% of those actually want to dedicate an entire game to chasing.
The best example I have of something similar in any game is 6pool rush in SC2. Requires close to 0 skill, and stomps low-skill players like hell. But you never improve by using it, and one only uses it in order to abuse. Difference is, in SC2 it doesn't really make the game less fun for the person if he can counter it, whilst in Dom it is incredibly unfun to chase someone for 20 minutes without a pause.
Skill require? Nope
Item build decisions require? Nope
Stragegy involved? Nope.
Tell me, why is Riot still letting this be a viable method to play in pubs? Oh, because they don't care about Dom, that's why.
you do know that if you want to run a backcapping strat on any elo higher than 1210 you need to be good at juking, don't you?


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Talith PA

Senior Member

08-05-2012

To pull it off outside of smurf range you need to dedicate the right champion and item build to it as well as being good at juking and when to use actives / summoners. It's actually easier for the dedicated chaser than it is for the dedicated pooter.


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EMeta

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Senior Member

08-05-2012

I'm not a backcapper myself, but it adds a necessary component to Dom. Without it Dom would have way too much turtling, and that would be far worse.