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Riot will NEVER respond to any thread of importance (and here's why)

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ICastShadows

Senior Member

08-06-2012

one thing though I dont agree with. Riot never sells power?

Well whats an Ip boost then? If you spend bonus Ip on runes (which I assume most do) then you are indeed selling power. Also rune pages = power


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Reaper1020

Senior Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
Morello:
That's the big challenge, for sure. I think the real issue here is when we don't have anything aside from "we're working on it" to say, it's hard to even understand what to say instead - that answer isn't very helpful or satisfying, but there's also no real update immediately to these things. As Tryn said, this can make it a bit of a ****ed-if-you-do/****ed-if-you-don't scenarios when it comes to communicating.

I think the other thing that's salient here is the intent; these more "businessy" issues are tough for us because we actually focus so much on the game-type stuff as opposed to the business stuff, and oddly that has been perceived as sneaky, when it's actually an issue of "oh yeah, that stuff should be dealt with too but HOLY **** WE SHOULD MAKE THIS COOL THING!" The irony of that does make me chuckle a little

When we do fix stuff, those issues tend to go away - but what that means is they never are the "topic of the day" unless they're problems. We've done a lot, but ****ing A we have so much more to do still. Honestly, I hope that never changes - how much there is to do is why this is exciting for us.

I will say this; I really prefer these conversations than having to explain why our servers don't work all the time, or that every champion is wildly out of balance, or we don't have Draft play, etc. That doesn't absolve us from anything in the future, but this game has changed a LOT - even in the two years I've been here.


Speaking of "HOLY **** WE SHOULD MAKE THIS COOL THING!"

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2378023 this skin kinda needs to happen imo :3


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WilliEnrique

Junior Member

08-06-2012

only in lol to see the president respond people.


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Amumu is Beast

Senior Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
Tryndamere:
Thanks for the detailed initial post. I understand and can relate to your frustration, because for years, I sat on your guys side of the fence as a passionate gamer who really wanted to help the game that I loved be even better. I would sit for hours writing up detailed posts, I would discuss with my friends and I would wrack my brain on figuring out how to "get through" to the company that could make decisions that impacted this thing that I cared about so greatly.

It is thus a strange twist of fate that I now sit where I sit and have the ability to either cause great frustration in you all, or, to alleviate this frustration and ideally channel your passionate energy into something constructive for our game and community.

Let me attempt to do so (in a small way) by responding to this post, but hopefully by the end of reading this, I will help reassure some of you that each and every day, 24 hours a day, these are precisely the things that we spend all of our time thinking about - because we want the same things you do.



Agreed. Allow me to apologize officially on behalf of Riot for our poor handling of many situations. If it is any consolation, I would like you (and whomever else reads this), that we do very thorough and formalized "retrospectives" of all of these events - and many others - to help us do better in the future and not make the same mistakes, or, to react to current situations that we haven't adequately addressed. Many of the topics you have listed are situations that various teams at the company are actively working on.

Now, what does "actively working on" mean? This is one thing that you cite that is frustrating. Sure we "say" that we are "actively working on" something, but words are wind - as we all know.

That's one of the reason we created the League of Legends timeline, http://timeline.leagueoflegends.com/ - we wanted to remind everyone about how significantly the game has evolved and will continue to evolve because we are constantly "actively working" on many things.

But the underlying reason for a lot of the issues you have cited with concern is that Riot has grown a lot in order to expand our capabilities to support tens of millions of users around the world, and ensuring that all of the multitude of things that we do on a daily basis are always awesome and fully aligned with our goal of delighting you all with awesome, is simply put, difficult. The good news is that we are a company that learns very quickly and has amazing people at all levels of the company who care deeply about this mission. We WANT to deliver awesome with everything that we do. When we don't, we take it very seriously.

I can say with confidence, that this is one thing that separates us from many other companies - from top to bottom, the thing that matters most to us is delighting our players and that's what drives our decisions. When we do something that deviates from that, it is likely due to sub-optimal execution, or misalignment internally, rather than any deliberate attempt to be not awesome. It's hard to demonstrate this, but I think the players who have come to events and met us or visited the office can vouch for these things, but ideally we'll have more ways to communicate and reinforce these ideals in a more scaleable way in the future (we are actively working on that =p).



The real reason we don't address some of these things head on, is because often times we don't have great answers and/or are working on great long term solutions that aren't ready for daylight yet.

We have learned over time (from community feedback) that saying we are working on something really isn't a great answer, because time is a very important factor that has a different perception depending on who is looking at the situation and whose perspective we are looking at it from. Example: if a character is slightly OP, say has a 2% higher win rate than our average, (by tending to win too many matchups, or be too versatile, etc), the severity of the issue can be different depending on who is looking at the situation. Competitive players may think it is a major issue due it this character impacting the meta (picks, bans, lane allocations, etc), while many other players may not care at all. Or, our design team may think that a noob stompy champion (say, Tryndamere!!1) who is not frequently used at high level play, is a much more important issue to address because it impacts a large % of players, but the competitive tier doesn't really have this come up on their radar, etc.

The key is that things are relative based on the viewers perspective (any physics or philosophy majors out there?).

Now, that's a design example, but we may have a similar situation re: priorities that hit other issues, like pricing, development priorities, etc. Sometimes we "stop gap" until we have a better long term solution.

A great example is pricing. We haven't been fully happy with our pricing communication, approach and execution because believe it or not, pricing is not something that receives much attention from most senior people at the company. We're focused on creating awesome - like developing E-sports, building game features, improving our content or intellectual property, building the organization, launching internationally, etc.

Pricing, aside from us saying "let's have the game be free forever and never sell power" has largely been an after thought because our view is that if we create awesome, then our players will reward us. That has held true.

Thus, if we botch the retirement of skins, or don't have enough sales, it is really due to organizational momentum and the lack of real leadership driving a directional change based on your guys feedback. The good news is, for those who care about pricing and those types of things, is that we have real, dedicated leadership here now who can focus on doing a better job of ensuring your needs are better met from that perspective.

Now, that doesn't mean that all skins will now cost 0 IP, or something equally drastic, but what it DOES mean is that there will be a lot more careful consideration, focus and communication with you all about what we're doing there.

With pretty much anything that sucks that we do, the upstream "cause" can be traced to that - the lack of sufficient mindshare because we probably think something else is more important - until we find the right person or grow the organization in such a way as to enable us to do all that we need to do in parallel.

There's no conspiracy where we're sitting around twisting our mustaches, if anything, the only mustache twisting we do is in regards to "creating more awesome" and figuring out how to delight you. Ask any Rioter, and they will tell you the same thing. Pretty much all of our focus internally is on that.



That's really just not the case. The problem simply relates to more "noise" and more things to do. We now are the largest online game in the world and serve (literally) tens of millions of gamers. Scale is hard, but we think we're up to the challenge and we appreciate your support.

You holding faith that we WILL do better is important to us, and don't be afraid to call us out when we're not as awesome as we usually are - because it is critical for us to keep our execution bar as high (or even higher) than it has always been.

The cool thing is, in all seriousness, we do have tons of awesome in store and our capabilities are stronger than ever. The Season 3 teaser from today is a sneak peak in this direction, but we have a lot more awesome coming that I don't want to spoil with a message board post (because the announcements or the releases will be 100000000x cooler).

Hopefully this was helpful and thanks for all of your patience while we keep trying to do an even better job for you guys.

On a personal note, my ELO has dropped from about 1650 to 1400 because I'm focusing so much more on trying to build our organizational capabilities than I am at keeping my LOL skills sharp - another tragedy that I look forward to remedying (so trust me when I say I'm motivated)!


Don't lie to me.


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Lurnaezel

Senior Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
ICastShadows:
one thing though I dont agree with. Riot never sells power?

Well whats an Ip boost then? If you spend bonus Ip on runes (which I assume most do) then you are indeed selling power. Also rune pages = power


Do you make your champions stronger by IP alone? Does having more IP instantly mean you're stronger? No.


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Wendek

Senior Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
Tryndamere:
Wall o' text


As far as pricing is concerned, my main issue (can't talk for anyone else) is that Marketing seems to look down upon us, the players. I feel this way because they never talk, they never explain anything and now that they use champions for sales (which is a fun idea in itself) we don't even see their nicks anymore, it's like... they don't want to engage with us, they want to remain as impersonal as they can because we're not worth talking to.
Every time you talk about the atmosphere at Riot, how you just want to creat awesome stuff and such... in my head I can only think "This is true except for the marketing department who doesn't care about this pony-rainbow stuff".

Recently we've had several mega-threads concernig artistic design, game design, balance, eSport and pretty much anything, but Marketing Reds DO NOT TALK TO US, EVER. So I have a hard time thinking they consider us anything higher than walking wallets, and it's a sad thought to have for someone who loves the game and 95% of the company making it.


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The MechE

Senior Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
Bonabon:
Having to spend countless months grinding out IP to set up proper infrastructure on your account with rune pages and a healthy champion roster isn't fun.


Well, why do you call it grinding? Do you not like playing this game?


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ICastShadows

Senior Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
Lurnaezel:
Do you make your champions stronger by IP alone? Does having more IP instantly mean you're stronger? No.


Thats like saying, "Can you eat money?" Does money give you nurishment?

well no, but if I have money...


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iMyung

Senior Member

08-06-2012

Quote:
Morello:
That's the big challenge, for sure. I think the real issue here is when we don't have anything aside from "we're working on it" to say, it's hard to even understand what to say instead - that answer isn't very helpful or satisfying, but there's also no real update immediately to these things.


I think what most rational people would like to hear is honesty in how things are progressing -- and if that means stating there is no progression or it's in the back burner, then that is sufficient. The biggest issue in claiming it's coming soon is raising anticipation when that shouldn't be the goal. The goal should be telling people what they should predict.

Also I should note that when you are providing honest feedback, you will get trolls in those commented threads. That's to be expected, and they should be ignored.

Because the bigger picture is, there are thousands to millions of people reading the explanations and most of us are satisified with it.

I'm much more content hearing any answer than no answer at all. I fully understand it's difficult delivering bad news, but for the long run, we can cite Riot's superb communication with issues than having a rep for being afraid to deliver news.


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Shunkwugga

Senior Member

08-06-2012

The only real thing I can say that summons up a lot of stuff being said by anyone:

Forum users don't actually have real jobs and think they are entitled to endless amounts of knowlege. Basically this means they don't know what an NDA is.

Spoiler: NDA is non-disclosure agreement. This means that even if they want to tell you something, they're contractually obligated to keep their mouths shut.

Apparently, following through with an NDA means that idiotic entitled kids think that Riot's not listening. They are, they just can't talk about it. They can't even say "we're working on it." President Tryndamere also added in that there are things they don't want to talk about because the answer won't be perceived as a favorable response, so that's just them holding their tongues because you lot are an insufferable bunch of children.