Entropy in SR

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KaiSong

Member

07-30-2012

I believe that of the items that should carry over to summoners rift that entropy is one of the better items that can be sent out. It provides a nice slow proc that is very useful in chasing situations as a jungler and it has the active and its high damage that I like, sometimes frozen mallet isnt what the team needs and some champions who benefit from the phage wouldnt benefit from triforce or frozen mallet as much as entropy.

Champions that i believe that could use this item in summoners rift include Riven, Xin, Udyr, Nocturne, Trundle, Jarvan, and Fiora. More are probably viable but I just dont have the mind to think of them. This would give many of them the ability to carry their teams if their team doesnt do enough damage/ back is breaking from how heavy their teams are but they already invested in a phage.

The main champs that I believe this would help though would be fiora/yi as with their high AS steroids and their role as mainly just glass cannon duelist/ damage dealers this gives them just slightly enough utility to make them possibly more viable in draft pick.

Entropy could also become the last item in non trinity carrying AD carries to give them slightly more utility or a build choice before a contested fight such as one for dragon in early game when an ezreal who was building BT/trifoce is holding a phage zeal and a BF sword. That ezreal could alternate the build from triforce BT into entropy PD followed by last whisper and BT IE. The extra health could help on tankier AD's such as Graves, and help the chasing ability of Vayne ultimate especially with the active. Toplane Kayle could probably see this item as a viable pick as Most kayle are built along the lines of a offcarry using black cleaver to get armor reduction for the ranged carry to destroy the marked target, with Entropy there is a choice between two different but very strong on hit effects with high damage attached to it.


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

07-30-2012

Entropy exists because Dominion doesn't have a Red buff.

You want Entropy? Go kill the lizard elder. There, not even taking up an item slot.


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KaiSong

Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdeadman View Post
Entropy exists because Dominion doesn't have a Red buff.

You want Entropy? Go kill the lizard elder. There, not even taking up an item slot.
Because you can always take red buff as toplane, because you can always get red buff during every minute of the game because you take the enemy red always. And I didnt realize red buff gave HP, and AD which scales up with crit.

I just like the idea of an active item for ADC and other characters. It gives slightly more strategy into ADC besides hitting your AS/AD steroid button and right clicking someone while occasionally moving to try not to get gibbed. One would have to know when they would use the entropy active as most steroid that ADC have available for them are way under 60 second CD that the entropy has.


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaiSong View Post
Because you can always take red buff as toplane, because you can always get red buff during every minute of the game because you take the enemy red always. And I didnt realize red buff gave HP, and AD which scales up with crit.
Entropy is cost-inefficient for that active effect.
Summoner's Rift is balanced around having no true damage on items.
Frozen Mallet has a stronger slow (it's ALSO cost-inefficient but has better defense)
Mind naming a few champions that would optimally want Entropy on SR?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaiSong View Post
I just like the idea of an active item for ADC and other characters. It gives slightly more strategy into ADC besides hitting your AS/AD steroid button and right clicking someone while occasionally moving to try not to get gibbed. One would have to know when they would use the entropy active as most steroid that ADC have available for them are way under 60 second CD that the entropy has.
"More strategy" nothing, you press 1 more button and now have a slow and DoT attached to your attacks. You STILL right click your target, activate your steroids, and beat the **** out of them. That's what RADCS do.


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XVIII The Moon

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdeadman View Post
Entropy is cost-inefficient for that active effect.
Summoner's Rift is balanced around having no true damage on items.
Frozen Mallet has a stronger slow (it's ALSO cost-inefficient but has better defense)
Mind naming a few champions that would optimally want Entropy on SR?

"More strategy" nothing, you press 1 more button and now have a slow and DoT attached to your attacks. You STILL right click your target, activate your steroids, and beat the **** out of them. That's what RADCS do.
Riven, Shyvanna, Skarner, Wu Kong, Daruis, Hell even Talon, and Udry could all optimally want Entropy on SR.

It's a great item even if the active is cost-inefficient. What Other item gives High AD and a decent amount of health? I basically build it on any Fighter in Dominion since it's just that good. I really wish they would of brought that over instead of the useless spark, since the spark isn't even an end-game item and suffers the same effect as haunting guise.

I actually think there should be More counter-part items in the game. There is the frozen mallet, which is High HP and low damage (stronger slow) and Entropy that has a weaker slow and hp, but higher damage.'


Finally, they don't have to bring entropy, but I would still like a decent hp - High AD item in SR. Remove the active, give it a stronger slow or a more consistent slow, and call it Yportne.


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aavri View Post
Riven, Shyvanna, Skarner, Wu Kong, Daruis, Hell even Talon, and Udry could all optimally want Entropy on SR.
Every single one of those champions has enough innate offense that I'd prefer Mallet over Entropy. The offensive implication of a 40% slow that doesn't rely on a 1 in 4 chance is amazing.

Okay, actually Talon and Riven have mobility and high enough AD ratios for the difference to be worth it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aavri View Post
It's a great item even if the active is cost-inefficient. What Other item gives High AD and a decent amount of health? I basically build it on any Fighter in Dominion since it's just that good. I really wish they would of brought that over instead of the useless spark, since the spark isn't even an end-game item and suffers the same effect as haunting guise.
You're right about Spark being useless.

However, the number 1 reason still stands: Riot does not want easily attained true damage in 5v5.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aavri View Post
I actually think there should be More counter-part items in the game. There is the frozen mallet, which is High HP and low damage (stronger slow) and Entropy that has a weaker slow and hp, but higher damage.'
That would be pretty cool, except for two problems. The first being they'd have to be within reasonable balance of each other while also being unique enough that the only difference ends up with item you chose to build it with. Entropy and Mallet seem to trade off well enough (except since it's only available on a map that equates to a mini game, not a whole lot of balance changes happen with it), but what about other item designs that are less easily balanced?

The second problem, being related to the first, is that all champions scale differently. The reason this game doesn't have items that have negative stats (the reasoning behind being that since you take this negative, you get this bonus) is also related to it. If you have an item that reduces AS but increases AD greatly, Riven and Talon can abuse the hell out of that. If you have an item that increases AS and reduces AD, Mundo could roll with that (having a 100-200 AD steroid kinda negates that). I could go on with examples...but it's the same with this. If you have two versions of an item, with the difference being the statistic balance, you have to remember that each champion also scales differently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aavri View Post
Finally, they don't have to bring entropy, but I would still like a decent hp - High AD item in SR. Remove the active, give it a stronger slow or a more consistent slow, and call it Yportne.
We don't need to invert an item's name and clone it with minor differences.

It would be cool to have a high AD, low HP item. I don't know if it would particularly be balanced, but until Riot decides on that, you'll probably have to settle with things like Trinity Force for your Tons of DamageŠ.


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XVIII The Moon

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdeadman View Post
Every single one of those champions has enough innate offense that I'd prefer Mallet over Entropy. The offensive implication of a 40% slow that doesn't rely on a 1 in 4 chance is amazing.

Okay, actually Talon and Riven have mobility and high enough AD ratios for the difference to be worth it.
See, you're JUST looking at the slow. While the slow is a nice bonus, I'm looking at that actual stats. Entropy is also REALLY good an wu kong with his total 6.7 ratio (if you land most of your ult). Entropy is a good item in general for tanky dps who doesn't really scale well with crit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdeadman View Post
You're right about Spark being useless.

However, the number 1 reason still stands: Riot does not want easily attained true damage in 5v5.
1/10th of the champions in the game have true damage and there is ignite, one of the most chosen summoner spells (only behind flash) as well as lizard buff.

If a team wants Some from of true damage, it is really easy to get it with out needing an item for it.

I'll reply to the rest later, gmae starting


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XVIII The Moon

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdeadman View Post

That would be pretty cool, except for two problems. The first being they'd have to be within reasonable balance of each other while also being unique enough that the only difference ends up with item you chose to build it with. Entropy and Mallet seem to trade off well enough (except since it's only available on a map that equates to a mini game, not a whole lot of balance changes happen with it), but what about other item designs that are less easily balanced?

The second problem, being related to the first, is that all champions scale differently. The reason this game doesn't have items that have negative stats (the reasoning behind being that since you take this negative, you get this bonus) is also related to it. If you have an item that reduces AS but increases AD greatly, Riven and Talon can abuse the hell out of that. If you have an item that increases AS and reduces AD, Mundo could roll with that (having a 100-200 AD steroid kinda negates that). I could go on with examples...but it's the same with this. If you have two versions of an item, with the difference being the statistic balance, you have to remember that each champion also scales differently.

We don't need to invert an item's name and clone it with minor differences.

It would be cool to have a high AD, low HP item. I don't know if it would particularly be balanced, but until Riot decides on that, you'll probably have to settle with things like Trinity Force for your Tons of DamageŠ.
I didn't mean negative stats. It was stupid that there was stats like that. Since medreads had -10ad then it's combined parts.

I meant like how bloodrazer is a high ad, decent LS item, have a high LS, very low AD item.

or other extream reversals.


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aavri View Post
See, you're JUST looking at the slow. While the slow is a nice bonus, I'm looking at that actual stats. Entropy is also REALLY good an wu kong with his total 6.7 ratio (if you land most of your ult). Entropy is a good item in general for tanky dps who doesn't really scale well with crit.
I play Wukong with Trinity or Mallet, because both of those are fantastic to his damage output as well as his ability to stick to a target. Still, you are right that I overlooked him, but I pointed out other champions with equally high AD ratios who would do well with Entropy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aavri View Post
1/10th of the champions in the game have true damage and there is ignite, one of the most chosen summoner spells (only behind flash) as well as lizard buff.

If a team wants Some from of true damage, it is really easy to get it with out needing an item for it.
True damage is available, yes, however unless your champion is specifically geared to deal it, you have very limited amounts through Ignite and the red buff.

Riot has stated that they don't plan to put True damage on any items because, no matter how they design the item, either it will deal enough to be abused by whichever champion scales best with the item, or it will have a pointless value and not be worth it. The only suggestion I ever heard where it wouldn't be OP would be to make ExCa ignore MR since it's 32 damage over 8 seconds, an unbelievably low amount. But I doubt they'd even do that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aavri View Post
I didn't mean negative stats. It was stupid that there was stats like that. Since medreads had -10ad then it's combined parts.

I meant like how bloodrazer is a high ad, decent LS item, have a high LS, very low AD item.

or other extreme reversals.
I know you weren't talking about negative stats. My point was that it still applies.

The reason there isn't an MR Sunfire, an AD-heavy version of Gunblade, an MR-heavy Guardian, an AP-heavy Malady, etc. is because now you're giving everyone perfect itemization. Now, at first that doesn't sound like a problem, until you consider that not going with your "perfect" set means you're gimping your champion's potential. All of a sudden, EVERY player has all 6 items pre-dictated to them, and items may as well just be set to auto-buy when you have enough gold and stand in the pool.

Imperfect itemization allows people to mix and match their builds more for the situation.


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XVIII The Moon

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdeadman View Post
I play Wukong with Trinity or Mallet, because both of those are fantastic to his damage output as well as his ability to stick to a target. Still, you are right that I overlooked him, but I pointed out other champions with equally high AD ratios who would do well with Entropy.
Actually, I would do Wu kong with Entropy and Triforce. Why? while the slows of the two might not stack, Both give great hp, Entropy has high AD, and Triforce has Shen proc for his q to be valued even if you waste a passive.

True damage is available, yes, however unless your champion is specifically geared to deal it, you have very limited amounts through Ignite and the red buff.

Riot has stated that they don't plan to put True damage on any items because, no matter how they design the item, either it will deal enough to be abused by whichever champion scales best with the item, or it will have a pointless value and not be worth it. The only suggestion I ever heard where it wouldn't be OP would be to make ExCa ignore MR since it's 32 damage over 8 seconds, an unbelievably low amount. But I doubt they'd even do that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdeadman View Post
I know you weren't talking about negative stats. My point was that it still applies.

The reason there isn't an MR Sunfire, an AD-heavy version of Gunblade, an MR-heavy Guardian, an AP-heavy Malady, etc. is because now you're giving everyone perfect itemization. Now, at first that doesn't sound like a problem, until you consider that not going with your "perfect" set means you're gimping your champion's potential. All of a sudden, EVERY player has all 6 items pre-dictated to them, and items may as well just be set to auto-buy when you have enough gold and stand in the pool.

Imperfect itemization allows people to mix and match their builds more for the situation.

No, items will still very. Riot as stated there is multiple stat-combinations and stat variations that it still needs to fill. Having an AD gun-blade, MR guardian, or AP malady won't force characters to get them, but will open up more builds for characters DUE to the currently limited variations.

Builds will still fluctuate, due to strategy. Getting shut down in lane as an AD carry vs an AD carry? Man if only there was more AD + armor items.

Man, AD casters are really lacking in itemization, if only there was an AD heavy gunblade.
Heck, not only would that be great for AD casters, but would also open a build option for MF, graves, or EZ.


We need more items in the game, more unique item passives and stat variation which will give us more ways to build characters. As a person said earlier in my skype call, Characters should counter other characters, but items in MOBA genras are there to counter strategies.


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