Add an alternative passive to Zeke's Herald?

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Fight Spice

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Current Aura:
Unique: Nearby allied champions gain +20% attack speed and +12% life steal.


I would love to add an alternative aura if there is ONE condition met

Unique: Nearby allied champions gain +20% attack speed and +12% life steal.
OR
Unique: If there is a Frozen Heart aura affecting allied teammates, this item will negate that aura and add 10% lifesteal



I honestly need a reason to build this item on top laners, junglers, etc because it simply takes a little bit too much gold without any damage. This could potentially be an AMAZING buy for Master Yi, Tryndamere, etc because it would negate the FH aura that is SO crippling to these characters.

I think it makes a lot more sense to have a direct counter to FH. I think the aura negation and 10% lifesteal is made fair because FH still has a LOT of benefit to the item purchaser without the nasty aura on it, like,
20% CDR
99 Armor
500 mana

Basically, all the materials made for FH give you 81 armor, 425 mana, and 15% CDR.

Spending 650G combines 3 inventory spaces, 18 armor, 75 mana, 5% CDR, and that Aura. It would still be a good buy if the Aura was somewhat countered.


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ICWhatUDidThar

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fight Spice View Post
Unique: If there is a Frozen Heart aura affecting allied teammates, this item will negate that aura and add 10% lifesteal
Then what would be the point in buying Frozen heart over Randuins? Half the reason you buy FH is for that aura.


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Fight Spice

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ICWhatUDidThar View Post
Then what would be the point in buying Frozen heart over Randuins? Half the reason you buy FH is for that aura.
What's the point of buying Zeke's except for the **** aura that does nothing?

Oh right, if you buy Zeke's you get completely countered by FH, with it reducing your ally's attack speed for MORE than if you hadn't bought Zeke's.

I'd rather have them both cancel eachother out so you have a legitimate reason to buy one or the other.


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King Roofus

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Senior Member

07-30-2012

2145 gold aura counters a 2725 gold aura. You seem to think frozen heart lowers attack speed more than zekes increases it. But you're actually wrong.


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Diabolic Jungler

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fight Spice View Post
What's the point of buying Zeke's except for the **** aura that does nothing?

Oh right, if you buy Zeke's you get completely countered by FH, with it reducing your ally's attack speed for MORE than if you hadn't bought Zeke's.

I'd rather have them both cancel eachother out so you have a legitimate reason to buy one or the other.
It's equal to zeke's...what are you talking about.


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Fight Spice

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by King Rafikerus View Post
2145 gold aura counters a 2725 gold aura. You seem to think frozen heart lowers attack speed more than zekes increases it. But you're actually wrong.
Um, but I'm right. FH reduces MORE AS the higher the AS is, as it works off the total attack speed, while Zeke's AS bonus is additive.

test it out in a custom, have the enemy buy an FH, then buy a Zeal. If you're correct, your AS will be the SAME as your base AS for that level, but if you're wrong, then there will be a -(value) when you hover over your AS in the HUD.


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Philanthropist

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fight Spice View Post
Um, but I'm right. FH reduces MORE AS the higher the AS is, as it works off the total attack speed, while Zeke's AS bonus is additive.

test it out in a custom, have the enemy buy an FH, then buy a Zeal. If you're correct, your AS will be the SAME as your base AS for that level, but if you're wrong, then there will be a -(value) when you hover over your AS in the HUD.
I have no idea why people are downvoting you, this makes sense


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CryinOnionKnight

Senior Member

07-30-2012

FH will shred more attack speed than Zeke's gives (because one operates on total AS and the other operates on base AS)

Its also 600 gold cheaper and gives everyone large quantities of lifesteal. I entirely fail to see your point on why zeke's needs more


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ZTD09

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Senior Member

07-30-2012

Dude's right, AS reductions reduce the total attack speed, while attack speed enhancements work off the champions base level 1 attack speed. FH is more effective the more attack speed enemy's have, which is why when Malphite with frozen heart hits you for 70% reduction, you can't just correct it with your Tris Q or Graves E, your attack speed drops to like 0.6 no matter what really.


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Menea6587

Senior Member

07-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fight Spice View Post
What's the point of buying Zeke's except for the **** aura that does nothing?

Oh right, if you buy Zeke's you get completely countered by FH, with it reducing your ally's attack speed for MORE than if you hadn't bought Zeke's.

I'd rather have them both cancel eachother out so you have a legitimate reason to buy one or the other.
That's not possible...
If you have a base AS of 0.65
Zeke's gives +0.65*0.2 = 0.13 A/S

If you have 1.5 A/S, Zeke's still gives 0.13 A/S because base AS doesn't change.
FH affects total AS.
0.8 * 1.5 = 1.2
0.8 * (1.5 + 0.13) = 1.304

1.304 > 1.2
Aside from gold that could be used to buy other stuff, there is no downside to having Zeke's as opposed to not having Zeke's.


Zeke's is a laning item but needs to be made cheaper so it can be afforded earlier. In addition, it then needs to build into something that's even better so that the default isn't selling it after laning phase if bought.