Kay so it's time to get real about Nasus

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bob000

Senior Member

07-28-2012

His endgame really is that much stronger than jax. Partly because he has a 1s downtime on wither at max cdr which shuts down the enemy ad. He could use a buff but it needs to be careful because if he is able to get through laning too easily he will become consistently dominating in the later part of the game.


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Fredgerd

Senior Member

07-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aria Sachou View Post
Jungle: Horrible Q farm, also wastes a precious ss slot Nasus MUST have
Mid: Harassed the **** out of by most if not all ap mids. Your wither does ****
Bot lane: Enjoy getting harassed because you have no range and counter harass. Your wither can be beneficial here but it wastes mana and you need it to Q.
Top lane is the best for Nasus because with a good armour rune page you can withstand some of the damage and try your best to sustain it back.
Also you are vsing 1 guy who is usually melee. It works in Nasus's favour... but this meta is seriously hard for Nasus (Riven, Kennen, Darius, Jayce, etcetc)
I think people haven't experimented with Nasus support lanes yet. If you use someone traditional like Taric or Soraka to support him, sure he's boned.

But consider this. Nasus has natural sustain that most ADCs only dream of. Add some lifesteal quints and pots he has alot of recovery power. Combine this with a support who actually poses an early threat and forces the opponent to play passively (Yorick, Leona, etc) you have a pretty good lane.

That said I think OP makes alot of good points and I think Nasus could use an update.


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Guntermench

Senior Member

07-28-2012

Try him AP, it's rather entertaining to completely **** with the other team.


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Hyfe

Senior Member

07-28-2012

Nice post. Agreed across the board.

I really think Riot could start with just some basic number tweaks. The last time they patched Nasus was actually pretty decent... he got a lot of the usability improvements players had really been asking for: an attack range in line with other bruisers, the wither tenacity fix, a slightly improved E, etc. These all brought some attention back to Nasus and he enjoyed some play time for maybe... 2 weeks? At which point people started to realize he still was suffering from the same issues as before: a very weak laning phase and a rather large susceptibility to kiting in teamfights. He quickly fell off the map again in favor of more aggressive, versatile, mobile top lane bruisers.

Anyway, here's some of the very basic number tweak changes I think might make him a bit more practical in top lane, without having to rework his whole kit. The general idea here as a whole is that there should be a focus on slight buffs to some of his base stats as well as early mana costs, while perhaps slightly reducing some of his scaling and leaving or increasing his mana costs at later stages. This would give him a bit more survivability and usability early in the lane, while slightly toning down some of his late game potential, all without touching his Q mechanic.

Wither: Change mana cost to 60/70/80/90/100 from flat 80 (slight early buff, slight late nerf)
Makes wither cost slightly less at early levels so you are punished less for using it in lane as a disengage (sometimes very necessary), and cost more later game (his late game is strong enough and you will have an ample mana pool with items such as FH at this point). This is a small change that will help his early game a bit while minimally hitting his late game.

Wither: Increase cooldown to 16/15/14/13/12 from 15/14/13/12/11 (slight nerf)
I think the CD on wither late game is just a bit too good on Nasus right now. The reduced CD on wither was probably the biggest buff he got last year, much bigger than most people know. As it is now you can use the 5 second duration slow every 7 seconds with CDR. This is just a slight nerf that will keep Nasus from being able to chain wither so effectively with CDR late game. It should still let him stay in range and reapply to chase people down, but its just a bit less of a "permaslowed" feeling.

SF mana cost: reduce to 50/70/90/110/130 (rough numbers) from 70/85/100/115/130 (slight early buff)
The mana cost on SF is just too high for the benefit it provides in lane. It's a farming option with completely avoidable negligible damage, but it soaks like 1/3 of your mana pool. I could understand this if the spell was very useful... but its usually not. Use it a few times in lane and you have run dry and cant SS. This change would let you use it maybe 1 extra time in lane and winds up the same late game.

Base health: increased from 410 to 430-450 (ish).
I'm not comfortable giving a specific number here, as I don't know exactly how exact base numbers are decided on. What I do know is that Nasus has absolutely one of the lowest base health figures of any bruiser in the game. I understand Nasus needs to be a bit vulnerable early so that there is an opportunity to shut down his farm. However... a 410 base HP on a champion with no counter harass, and that everyone knows to go all out on and abuse early to deny them farm, is just too weak. The argument may be, well he has has a lifesteal passive, he can heal it back up. Tell that to a Nasus that just got chunked to 200 HP in 1 exchange and now has to regen that HP off a minion wave with the opponent still there waiting to harass you down more or kill you. Something in the range of 430-460 base HP puts his starting HP in line with a lot of other bruisers and may be just enough to keep him from being completely dunked and zoned at lvl 1 or 2 by an aggressive top. As it is now he has less base HP than even champs like Wukong, Talon, etc... which just seems weird considering Nasus is supposed to be a tank.

Base armor: increased from 15 to 18 (ish)
Nasus is meant to be an option to counter heavy AD teams. You pick him vs heavy AD teams because of his wither and the fact that FH is amazing on him. You should mostly be facing AD bruisers top. Manaless casters will wreck you, and that is fair. You shouldn't be picking Nasus into a double AP comp. So let Nasus be more vulnerable to casters in lane, but give him a tiny bit more defense against the strong AD bruisers. If he is meant to be strong against AD, give him the defense to survive the lane a bit better against physical damage. You could even drop his armor scaling a tad (down to 3.2 or 3.3 from 3.5) if deemed necessary with a base increase. I don't think anyone has an issue with the way Nasus scales, just the fact that he starts out like a complete defenseless sissy.


Those are what I see as easy number tweaks. They bring his base defenses more in line with other bruisers, and make his mana costs a bit more realistic and forgiving early. He still would have very little to offer in terms of counter-harass, and still would be susceptible to strong early pressure. Basicall, some slight early game usability and survivability buffs. Any of the numbers could be argued a bit in one direction or the other, but this is what I see as reasonable from a naive, non-developer standpoint.


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Incendiax

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Member

07-28-2012

Bamp for justice


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Beas7ie

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Senior Member

07-28-2012

I just want new animations for him. His current ones are so "meh". He needs attack animations like Hecarim where if he hits ppl with that staff(Axe for Dreadknight skin) then you know its gonna hurt.


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Darmikau

Senior Member

07-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Incendiax View Post
AP Nasus
I'll be trying this, for sure. The only problems I forsee are that FH is really, really core on him and is a big part of how he's staying relevant currently - he needs to armor to survive in top and he needs to CDR to be effective. He would also become even more susceptible to disengage due to reliance on damage through his ultimate - if the other team simply avoids you while it's up, you lose out on basically all your damage.

Quote:
Hyfe: Nasus buffs
I like these and think they're good options to explore. I'd honestly be more a fan of reworking his power curve in some way, but if people want to perfectly retain the current Nasus, then this would be a good place to start.


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Darmikau

Senior Member

07-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beas7ie View Post
I just want new animations for him. His current ones are so "meh". He needs attack animations like Hecarim where if he hits ppl with that staff(Axe for Dreadknight skin) then you know its gonna hurt.
I actually don't think he's that poorly off for an older champion. His animations are pretty smooth, and his particles, while not the greatest, aren't bad either. The only things I don't like are his low VA count (which can't really be fixed, since his VA is no longer with us ) and his default skin, which is kinda banana-ish rather than regal. But, I use his skins anyway, so I don't tend to notice.


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Minjo Master

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Senior Member

07-28-2012

Very informative and good read.


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The Ferret Guy

Member

07-28-2012

There are other, older champions whom have received makeovers to remain current (or at least acceptable) in LoL. I mean Eve and Twitch both just got one. I'm sure Nasus will get one sometime.

Though, I think the main issue with trying to rework Nasus into something more viable, is that if his Q farming mechanic remains the way it is he'll snowball out of control and win late game fights arbitrarily just because of his Q. Yet in his current state, he either remains weak throughout an entire game and can't do anything about being bullied and maimed by champions like Riven and Jax, or he turns into a rather sub-par tank. (Sub-par in that he has only one CC move, which is only a slow, and is dependent on getting ridiculous amounts of farm on his Q to make it truly fear-worthy.)

Maybe if they capped the amount he could get on his Q or reworked it altogether he'd be easier to buff? Because right now if he was buffed and tweaked into modernization without that Q getting touched, he would end up winning games by having an infinite power curve, whereas other champions don't have that, aside from Veigar whom was easy to make viable with simple mana cost tweaks.


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