@Phreak

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NamKim

Senior Member

07-23-2012

So, the concept is pretty much the same as those people who say "I am not buying a first item so I can buy an expensive item later on?" Only, due to the lack of a first item, you are too much of a disadvantage to actually get the gold needed for that expensive item.


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GET REKT FGT

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Senior Member

07-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NamKim View Post
I'm probably going to get downvoted for this.

But why is rushing Death Cap in Dominion bad? I'm ignorant on this so please give me a nice answer.
You end up being useless...sure after you get it, it's nice and powerful, but it leaves you horribly squishy due to the expensive mats. The second anyone with any form of CC/Silence gets to you, they essentially cut through you like a hot knife through butter.


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CommodoreSkippy

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Senior Member

07-23-2012

Good god, that build is terrible. She'll pop as soon as a carry looks at her funny.

But at least then her "great" passive can trigger and she'll get to deal tons of damage with it.


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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

07-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NamKim View Post
I'm probably going to get downvoted for this.

But why is rushing Death Cap in Dominion bad? I'm ignorant on this so please give me a nice answer.
Zero surviveability, zero utility. Expensive.

I often see games where one person rush a DCap, unless their team is WAY steamrolling the enemy team, and often even if they are, they end with a lot more deaths and less kills than anyone else in the game, and pretty useless.

You need items that give utility as an AP Mage, you really need surviveability.
Also, while DCap is better than most other AP items when you compare items 1-to-1 regardless of cost, people who rush DCap and then another expensive item (and they usually do), end about 1-1.5 items less than people who passed it, and end up overall weaker in total. Not to mention all the deaths don't help them with getting more levels/gold.

If you do want to get a DCap, I suggest as 3rd big item at the earliest, preferably even 4th. Some champions can get it, but they're rare, and usually assassins who don't count on surviving any hits anyway.

The other champs who can get more damage earlier are champions who already bring a lot of utility in their kits, but they still usually want CDR first - think Lux.


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HaIfhearted

Senior Member

07-23-2012

Meh, the Deathcap recommendation wasn't as bad as the Zhonyas.
Ugh, that made me sad.

The fact that that build has ZERO CDR made me especially sad.
Like wtf that was a terrible recommended items list.


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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

07-23-2012

She gets 20% free CDR, at least. She only needs Ionian/another 15% CDR item to get to 39% after she maxes her W (assuming 21/x/x).


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naotasan

Senior Member

07-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talith PA View Post
Stop recommending players rush deathcap on dominion please. Thanks.
Phreak doesn't care for dominion


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Talith PA

Senior Member

07-23-2012

Rushing deathcap works for Summoner's Rift because on that map you have a slot you will need to put a ward in (because you aren't bad at this game and you ward your lane), a slot for boots, a slot or two for doran's rings, and then you need to work with those two remaining slots to build a slot efficient item. Deathcap is conveniently built from two items and provides a substantial leap in power for your team when you have it and blue buff. Blue buff provides you the mana regen and CDR to multiply the effectiveness of that deathcap, and then you add on blue elixir later so that you don't need to build a single CDR item.

Neither of those are on dominion.

Dominion games are usually decided at the 10k~12k gold mark for top laners. On Dominion you don't need to spend multiple slots on doran's items (unless you go for doran's shields), and you aren't using a slot for wards either. If you go with a boots, ring, sorc shoes + cap build like is suggested by Phreak, it means you have spent half of the game building nothing but AP and are relying on nearly base health, base resistances, and only the utility of whatever skills you put ranks into. You also spent half the game using only 3-4 item slots, and most likely have spent significant portions of the early game waiting for the gold to buy items. Unfortunately team fights are taking place at this time.

It's much more important to get those early incremental jumps in power that easy to build mid-tier items like guise and sweeper provide than to try and get a rushed deathcap. A mid ~ late-game deathcap is fine on the champions that really benefit from it.


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NamKim

Senior Member

07-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talith PA View Post
Rushing deathcap works for Summoner's Rift because on that map you have a slot you will need to put a ward in (because you aren't bad at this game and you ward your lane), a slot for boots, a slot or two for doran's rings, and then you need to work with those two remaining slots to build a slot efficient item. Deathcap is conveniently built from two items and provides a substantial leap in power for your team when you have it and blue buff. Blue buff provides you the mana regen and CDR to multiply the effectiveness of that deathcap, and then you add on blue elixir later so that you don't need to build a single CDR item.

Neither of those are on dominion.

Dominion games are usually decided at the 10k~12k gold mark for top laners. On Dominion you don't need to spend multiple slots on doran's items (unless you go for doran's shields), and you aren't using a slot for wards either. If you go with a boots, ring, sorc shoes + cap build like is suggested by Phreak, it means you have spent half of the game building nothing but AP and are relying on nearly base health, base resistances, and only the utility of whatever skills you put ranks into. You also spent half the game using only 3-4 item slots, and most likely have spent significant portions of the early game waiting for the gold to buy items. Unfortunately team fights are taking place at this time.

It's much more important to get those early incremental jumps in power that easy to build mid-tier items like guise and sweeper provide than to try and get a rushed deathcap. A mid ~ late-game deathcap is fine on the champions that really benefit from it.
Okay, this makes a lot of sense. This really does show the difference between Classic and Dominion. In Classic, you can wait it out and farm until you get a very powerful item then do tons of damage with it. In Dominion, you lack that luxury and you have to be as powerful as you can be at any given moment.

I thank all of you who answered my question. I was expecting a lot of downvotes and comments like "OMG, you F'n noob. GTFO." But you all responded very nicely with plenty of information. I thank you for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by naotasan View Post
Phreak doesn't care for dominion
As for this, I do not think it is entirely Phreak's fault. Even from the beginning, he was a classic player. If you look at Phreak's profile, he only has 12 Dominion wins. Sure, he might play with some Rioters in custom games, but I doubt that he could learn much from those games. I know that Phreak's builds are often controversial even with Classic. He might have good intentions, but just lacks knowledge in Dominion. I somehow doubt he even looks into the Dominion forums to even realize this mistake.

I remember someone saying that Dominion has to be treated separately from Classic. I am starting to think Riot needs a "Dominion equivalent" to Phreak.


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Nyx87

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Senior Member

07-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NamKim View Post
Okay, this makes a lot of sense. This really does show the difference between Classic and Dominion. In Classic, you can wait it out and farm until you get a very powerful item then do tons of damage with it. In Dominion, you lack that luxury and you have to be as powerful as you can be at any given moment.

I thank all of you who answered my question. I was expecting a lot of downvotes and comments like "OMG, you F'n noob. GTFO." But you all responded very nicely with plenty of information. I thank you for that.
As long as you ask politely, or say you have no information and would like an explanation, most people on this forum are willing to explain to you nicely. Your tone was that of someone who was genuinely interested in an answer, so people were happy to obligue.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NamKim View Post
As for this, I do not think it is entirely Phreak's fault. Even from the beginning, he was a classic player. If you look at Phreak's profile, he only has 12 Dominion wins. Sure, he might play with some Rioters in custom games, but I doubt that he could learn much from those games. I know that Phreak's builds are often controversial even with Classic. He might have good intentions, but just lacks knowledge in Dominion. I somehow doubt he even looks into the Dominion forums to even realize this mistake.

I remember someone saying that Dominion has to be treated separately from Classic. I am starting to think Riot needs a "Dominion equivalent" to Phreak.
This is a pretty accurate description as to why Phreak is poor at recommending builds for Dominion. I also think that he doesn't have that much time to create the spotlight with the final stats of the champion. It's why he is vague about most of the abilities. I mean he doesn't even say how many seeds she can store(last i heard it was 2, but in the spotlight I am assuming the little purple orbs around her were seeds and she had ~5.)


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