karma mid

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Randell44

Senior Member

07-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by kavinh the third View Post
problem is people don't care enough for support abilities rather then they do pure damage. Yes karma's got a lower damage but that shield and her aoe heals would make her more useful in a team fight then say someone like brand who only does damage. Her heal is actually extremely strong not to mention her laning phase is already on par if not better then most picks.
The key with Karma is not to support or to nuke. You are a solid mix of both and should be taking full advantage of both. Alot of the game is going to have you being a solid AP nuker. HOWEVER defense of team mates always takes priority. If nothing else be selfish, dead team mates = soon to be dead Karma :P.



Lets be honest though, a well played Karma is most likely adding both defense and offense at the same time on the right person/people. The balancing of exactly when and where you place your abilities is much more important on Karma than many champs and you can't sit on em either.


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The Good Chef

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Senior Member

07-23-2012

Karma is sooo good and people always cry she is so bad. Honestly she is probably one of the best AP burst plus she has a shield and a heal. No rework needed at all.


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Trombe Supports

Senior Member

07-23-2012

Karma is weak in terms of net benefit to team. Her kit is easy to use, and she is flexible enough to be played in every role but AD carry. I would go so far to say Karma is the easiest mage in League, if only to piss off people that play her and think she's our Dan Hibiki. (That happens to be Heimerdinger =) ) Being such a jack-of-all-trades, her weakness is understandable, but she's so weak right now you lose out a little when picking her. Minor number buffs could fix this -- IMO all that's needed to make her work without farm isn't hard CC, but the scaling MR per level that other tanky supports received. Maybe an AA range buff.

Top-level players don't play her not because they don't know how to, but because nearly every other pick contributes more to a team than her, and hipster appeal means nothing when the prospect of getting at a $5 million prize pool is on the mind.

I did a couple other rants on Karma the past couple of days with more reasoning, a bit lazy to re-type so here are links. (Those that care less about analysis than appeal probably already stopped at 'Karma is easy' hehe)

http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflege...vation/c5hq71n

http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflege...h_the_general/

http://www.reddit.com/r/LeagueofLege...s_could_karma/


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Randell44

Senior Member

07-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Fault View Post
Karma is weak in terms of net benefit to team. Her kit is easy to use, and she is flexible enough to be played in every role but AD carry. I would go so far to say Karma is the easiest mage in League, if only to piss off people that play her and think she's our Dan Hibiki. (That happens to be Heimerdinger =) ) Being such a jack-of-all-trades, her weakness is understandable, but she's so weak right now you lose out a little when picking her. Minor number buffs could fix this -- IMO all that's needed to make her work without farm isn't hard CC, but the scaling MR per level that other tanky supports received. Maybe an AA range buff.

Top-level players don't play her not because they don't know how to, but because nearly every other pick contributes more to a team than her, and hipster appeal means nothing when the prospect of getting at a $5 million prize pool is on the mind.

I did a couple other rants on Karma the past couple of days with more reasoning, a bit lazy to re-type so here are links. (Those that care less about analysis than appeal probably already stopped at 'Karma is easy' hehe)

http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflege...vation/c5hq71n

http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflege...h_the_general/

http://www.reddit.com/r/LeagueofLege...s_could_karma/
I agree more or less on everything except that she is easy to play. If she was easy to play you'd see more of her in normals where she can excel, as it is she is virtually non-existent. All of her skill interdecision, choices, and positioning make her difficult to play well.


Of course you could just be lazy and achieve a fair amount of success in normal as an AP nuker who treats teamates as convenient shield burst position and not much else. I could see you calling THAT Karma easy, but that isn't a good Karma.


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Trombe Supports

Senior Member

07-23-2012

Easy doesn't mean strong. Positioning only factors in more than other champions with Spirit Bond damage and Heavenly Wave heals, and even then those take less effort to get a hold on than Heim stun, proper Lulu execution, Janna Q+R, and so on.

Her kit is unique, and I love that, but it isn't difficult at all. Her perceived difficulty stems from her weak numbers. If you don't believe me, compare how bad Karma performs compared to other mages/jungles/supports/AP bruisers. If she gets rolling a little (one kill or two assists, 300-350 gold to add to whatever she built at the start), then she can match up. It's why I jungle her -- even if your ganks aren't successful, with just the income from jungle Karma can do her job and get to teamfight phases with everything she needs. Sure she can't carry, but Karma shouldn't be the foundation of her team's success, she should be the cement whatever her placement. Very rubbery and malleable cement.

Other picks can really push a minor advantage, but Karma is nearly required to get a lead in lane to compete -- this only happens when an opponent misplays. If she had a small boost to a ratio, base stats or any single area even, Karma would still be a situational pick, but she would retain her niche and unique feel while actually granting usefulness and her key flexibility to a team's comp.

But she isn't hard. Not even close.


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Randell44

Senior Member

07-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Fault View Post
Easy doesn't mean strong. Positioning only factors in more than other champions with Spirit Bond damage and Heavenly Wave heals, and even then those take less effort to get a hold on than Heim stun, proper Lulu execution, Janna Q+R, and so on...
But she isn't hard. Not even close.
Bad examples are bad.


I like Lulu . "Yup, this tastes like purple!". She feels similar in complexity to Karma, and for good reason. A nice support with offensive tendencies. Same exact style of choices too. Only with the Pix mechanic instead of the Mantra mechanic. Though unfortunately in normal's nobody ever understands her ultimate *grump*.


Hemiy's stun isn't so hard to land on it's own. The reason Heimy's stun is hard to land is the amount of reaction time your enemy gets. Aiming it is a skill easily acquired and your stun is landed from there not via your skill but enemy mistake. All the prediction in the world doesn't change it's travel time. Unless they are close, in which case it's an easy skill shot.


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Giltia Zero

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Senior Member

07-23-2012

2

Quote:
Originally Posted by kavinh the third View Post
Here's proof ur a noob who's never played karma. "short range" haha what a noob. Her shield mantra charged has the highest poke in the game. Her shield lasts 5 seconds and has a 6 seconds cooldown at 40% cdr that means u'll have it up all the time except for 1 second. .7 ratio is fairly high considering all her spells are aoes. and has no ability to fight after the first three seconds haha what a joke are u talking about karma or every mage in the game.
Hey look, the mentally retarded are trying to question my sound logic with "LAWL KARMA SO OP U DUMB". Fantastic.

Let me introduce you to Janna, the Eye of the Storm.

Janna has a shield. It lasts 5 seconds, and has a 6 second cooldown after you've farmed 40% CDR worth of your teams gold. That means you'll have it up all the time except for 1 second. .9 ratio is fairly high.

And more importantly, Janna has a 6 second AoE knockup with your "40% cooldown". And a 3 second cooldown on her .8 Ratio slow/nuke.

And a huge AoE knockback that basically makes it impossible to initiate on Jannas team.

So uh... yeah. You have fun farming mid and having no real AP carry. You enjoy your carry feeding in bot because he has no real support. You enjoy throwing the game because you're a ****ing idiot who thinks gimmick builds are viable.


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Irelia Bot

Member

07-23-2012

Shew is getting a few changes and one of these changes sounds like a knockback on her Heavenly wave.

She does need a few changes so she can function as a great support. Also have you been up against Annie or Ryze with Karma mid? Karma lacks the range to do much to them without getting stun/snared bursted.

Karma needs manra for her highest burst damage but mantra is hard to come by early and is gone soon after most team fights break out. that is one of her biggest limitations.


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Randell44

Senior Member

07-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaP616 View Post
Shew is getting a few changes and one of these changes sounds like a knockback on her Heavenly wave.

She does need a few changes so she can function as a great support. Also have you been up against Annie or Ryze with Karma mid? Karma lacks the range to do much to them without getting stun/snared bursted.

Karma needs manra for her highest burst damage but mantra is hard to come by early and is gone soon after most team fights break out. that is one of her biggest limitations.
You can actually harass with shield nuke rather well at a range well beyond where most champions can threaten you. But her AA needs to have a bit higher range so she can actually get CS without killing the entire wave lol.


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Giltia Zero

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Senior Member

07-23-2012

Shield Nuke isn't viable in a solo lane. It needs a target. Targets include... you and your creeps.

Now unless your opponent is melee range, there's no real fear of a predictable nuke. You can see someone using a Mantra, you can see someone shuffling towards a creep, it's not hard. And if you're not nuking people, you're blowing mana and mantra in lane.

People who get nuked by a partnerless Karma are the same people who stand in their creep line to fight Morde and will never understand how very useless Morde is.

Karma needs a lane partner who can close to melee distance (or relatively close at least) for her shield nuke to be an effective tool in lane. Otherwise, you're basically speccing survivability and then using it wrong.