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Playing to win versus Not playing to win

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Goronok

Senior Member

07-18-2012

Some good points and entertaining, I'd just like to point out that yelling at your team in game almost always pisses someone off, and then, angry or frustrated, they'll play worse... which usually leads to more yelling... then half the team has degenerated to typing instead of playing, then someone is so pissed off they just start feeding mercilessly, and then you've lost. Extreme negativity is a vicious cycle. :P

Basically, people who yell at their team and are negative for the hell of it are the people losing the game, to a much higher degree than anyone else.

Trolls lose games.


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spreadfred

Senior Member

07-18-2012

i am not a sheep; just because the forums say AP hecarim or AD annie or whatever are bad builds doesnt mean i automatically assume they are bad. the internet is full of idiots; why should i believe any of them? i want to experiment with a champion, and find out for myself if the build (or the champion) really is bad or not.
to give a more concrete example, lets look at warwick. for a long time, ww was looked at as one of the worst champs in the game. what's more, he only had 1 ability that does magic dmg; why would anyone put spell penetration on him? therefore, any build that includes magic pen is obviously trolling/bad? then, guardsman bob comes along, with his magewick build, and starts having lots of success. his increased visibility as a streamer certainly helped, but now warwick is built predominantly as a source of magic damage (even after riot nerfed his q).
you say you want every champ to be viable; but if you keep raging/dodging/saying "wtf zilean? n00b plz dont", you are going to miss that moment when a champion/unconventional build becomes viable. if the majority of lollers adopt a similar mindset, then these unconventional champs or builds can never push through, and can never be discovered; lol will slowly progress towards having the same 10 champs in every game.


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konfetarius

Senior Member

07-18-2012

Quote:
That person who doesn't care isn't listening to any of it. If only they made a gamemode that's basically an admittance of trying hard, then we'd be getting atleast some distance from those people. Something like a ranked Dominion.

I am so going into ranked Dominion when it comes out just to troll a certain selection of people who would go there.


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spreadfred

Senior Member

07-18-2012

Quote:
spreadfred:
i am not a sheep; just because the forums say AP hecarim or AD annie or whatever are bad builds doesnt mean i automatically assume they are bad. the internet is full of idiots; why should i believe any of them? i want to experiment with a champion, and find out for myself if the build (or the champion) really is bad or not.
to give a more concrete example, lets look at warwick. for a long time, ww was looked at as one of the worst champs in the game. what's more, he only had 1 ability that does magic dmg; why would anyone put spell penetration on him? therefore, any build that includes magic pen is obviously trolling/bad? then, guardsman bob comes along, with his magewick build, and starts having lots of success. his increased visibility as a streamer certainly helped, but now warwick is built predominantly as a source of magic damage (even after riot nerfed his q).
you say you want every champ to be viable; but if you keep raging/dodging/saying "wtf zilean? n00b plz dont", you are going to miss that moment when a champion/unconventional build becomes viable. if the majority of lollers adopt a similar mindset, then these unconventional champs or builds can never push through, and can never be discovered; lol will slowly progress towards having the same 10 champs in every game.

i would also like to add, when i pick an unconventional champ/build, im not trying to lose. im still going to do try as hard as i can to win. but if that doesnt happen, the unconventional is just easily singled out as the reason for the loss, when in reality there's a large number of factors that go into a loss.


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Sammybear

Junior Member

07-18-2012

I have never heard of a team of more skilled players losing to a team of less skilled players because the more skilled players were raging more. Why haven't I heard of that? Because the team of more skilled players isn't raging at eachother cause they're playing better than the team of less skilled players.

Also, spreadfred is right about champs "blooming" for the most part, but Riot really does help out and nudge champs towards the right direction. Even in Dominion now.
Next patch I'm sure Xin Zhao's winning precentage will go up 5-8%. Is that because all the ragers finally allowed Xin Zhao into their games and they all blossomed into beautiful flowers? Nah it's because Riot singled him out and threw delicious buffs at him. And some champions can be played more viably simply because certain others will get nerfed, too. Nome said they're looking into Yorick and Urgot soon. can't wait for that!!!!


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ColdFireBeast

Senior Member

07-18-2012

Quote:
SpiderParadox:

Long story short, even the "for fun" players want to win. That's the point of the game, they're just not willing to give up their playstyle or invest in the math, calculations, and research it would take to get that good at the game.

Then you don't want to win. Walls are there to keep the people who don't truly want something out.
What you just said, "I want to win but I don't want to do any of the work it requires to be a consistent winner."
I had this conversation maybe 100 times as a raid leader and main tank in WoW. You know what this means? It means that you don't want to ****ing win. You don't care.

You're apathetic. You can say you want to win all you ****ing **** well please, but at the end of the day, when you do ZERO to actually try and win? You obviously don't want it because you display a complete lack of actual desire or drive for it, beyond paying it lip service.


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spreadfred

Senior Member

07-18-2012

Quote:
ColdFireBeast:
Then you don't want to win. Walls are there to keep the people who don't truly want something out.
What you just said, "I want to win but I don't want to do any of the work it requires to be a consistent winner."
I had this conversation maybe 100 times as a raid leader and main tank in WoW. You know what this means? It means that you don't want to ****ing win. You don't care.

You're apathetic. You can say you want to win all you ****ing **** well please, but at the end of the day, when you do ZERO to actually try and win? You obviously don't want it because you display a complete lack of actual desire or drive for it, beyond paying it lip service.


see this is what's wrong with society today. if you want to do anything with any mild degree of success, you have to give up your entire ****ing life and focus on that one thing. no time to have fun. you hear about it all the time with athletes especially (in particular, american football, baseball, and basketball), but it seems to be true for, well, just about everything else. 99% of the (professional) athletes have given up their entire childhood, their entire concept of having fun, to devote their every waking moment to their 1 sport. its dumb, its bs, and it takes all of the fun out of these games.


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Hamm3rhand

Senior Member

07-18-2012

you should make a blog dude, i'd rss that ****


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ColdFireBeast

Senior Member

07-18-2012

Quote:
spreadfred:
see this is what's wrong with society today. if you want to do anything with any mild degree of success, you have to give up your entire ****ing life and focus on that one thing. no time to have fun. you hear about it all the time with athletes especially (in particular, american football, baseball, and basketball), but it seems to be true for, well, just about everything else. 99% of the (professional) athletes have given up their entire childhood, their entire concept of having fun, to devote their every waking moment to their 1 sport. its dumb, its bs, and it takes all of the fun out of these games.

The difference here, and it's a big one, is that it doesn't take your whole childhood. It doesn't take your whole life. All it takes to improve at video games is to do basic research, maybe a few hours, to understand core concepts of what you're doing.
Since we brought sports into it, what people are saying is akin to, "Yeah I wanna win at basketball and soccer, but I don't really want to learn to dribble or pass." Really? Then most soccer(myself) or basketball players would say what? Perhaps that you don't actually want to win any games.


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SpiderParadox

Senior Member

07-18-2012

Quote:
ColdFireBeast:
Then you don't want to win. Walls are there to keep the people who don't truly want something out.
What you just said, "I want to win but I don't want to do any of the work it requires to be a consistent winner."

Not what I said. I said "I want to win but I don't want to do all of the work it requires to be a professional player."

Considering that you misunderstood me on such a basic level, there's no point replying to anything else you said, since they're arguments against a statement I did not make.

and if you honestly believe everyone who plays a sport, or a videogame should be trying to be pro level... I don't know what to say except "that's not how the world works...sorry?"