Playing to win versus Not playing to win

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

AstraeusRasgriz

Member

07-18-2012

So yesterday I had way too much energy and made a rant about people picking champions that don't really seem competitive in Dominion. Some people thought it was hilarious, which is great, so I think I'll rant a little bit more about something close to the black shriveled organ I like to think of as my heart, but may actually just be my necrotic liver. If you haven't read the original post, I highly recommend it, if only to make yourself laugh, even a little bit. Big names such as The Feedski loved it!

Quote:
...I was laughing my ass off through out the thread. +1

--The Feedski

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...2367488&page=1
Who knows, you may even agree with some of it. But it's totally ok if you don't. You're just not invited to my next big party, and I hate you forever, MOM.

You see, whenever I ***** at people either at champ select, or actually in the few games I make it to without dodging, I'm always labeled the same way. Either 'Try-Hard', or full of rage, or the classic 'no-life-nerd'. By the way, just how in the **** did try hard even become an insult in the first place? You'd never see anyone in real life making fun of the highly successful with their boatloads of money and beautiful wives by labeling them as a try hard... or maybe you would, if you were totally jealous. There's a comparison there that I'm not even going to justify. That's not the point. The point is that the person usually has the same defense, "I'm playing for fun, you can't tell me how to play". Oh really, sir? Is playing for fun AND winning too hard for your meager gamer abilities? Probably. That's what I tell myself anyway, if only to make sense of what is perhaps life's greatest mystery. The "For Funsies Only" gamer. Perhaps the only thing more mysterious is all that dark matter junk physicists can't figure out, but I can tell you what that is. That's the apathy of a million league of legends gamers who just don't care enough to try and win.

Why do people think that you can only either play to win or play to have fun? Why is it impossible to do both? You don't see anyone saying that you can play either SR, or you can play Dominion, but not both. Oh, who are we kidding, SR? Really? Ha! But for some reason people feel like it's impossible to have fun while winning. The concept is so outrageous to me that I sometimes feel the need to exorcise the demons from my body, lest they continue to **** with my capacity to read sentences from other human beings.

You see, the source of frustration for a lot of rage prone gamers such as myself when playing with random people is that not everyone is playing for the same reasons. Some people really do just play for fun's sake(losers), and some people, again like myself(winners), do want to win more times than they lose(WINNERS). The problem happens when you put these two types of people together. I want you to imagine what it would be like to stick Jersey Shore's "The Situation" in the same room with a grizzly bear. My point? **** that guy and I hope a grizzly bear eats him(The real winner here: Grizzly bears)

I don't like losing, but I can be content knowing it was a close game, that we simply got out played, or that our team comp just wasn't quite up to snuff. I really hate losing when it's because someone on our team just doesn't care, something I really thought would be over after a certain bracket. The 'not giving two ****s mentality', as I like to call it, manifests in a lot of ways: From auto locking an unconventional champion without any consideration to the rest of the team, to simply playing in a way that makes you cry yourself to sleep some nights(not that I've ever...good luck proving it, *******), it doesn't change the fact that you just lost that 285-0 because your 5th team mate spent the entire game trying to prove that AD Annie is a thing that doesn't exist solely in your nightmares. I mean, it does exist in our nightmares, but what kind of person does it in real life? A terrible person with no soul and no conscience, that's who.

People wonder why I dodge games so much. To those people, STOP STALKING ME AND GET A LIFE. For the rest of you, it's because I don't have a 5 man team of competent friends(5 friends period) to guarantee wins for me after a losing streak. I can't just queue solo, take a shot with a guy who auto locks and screams "AD NID", and not expect a serious case of the rage-ies afterward. I'm sure the guys who have those pre-made teams can experiment with unconventional champions and team compositions and actually make them work sometimes, but when you play only with randoms, you stop taking those chances. After you've lost your 30th game because of AP Hecarim, you can only do so much before you run out of medication, and who the hell wants to explain to their doctor that you went through 3 refills in 7 days because you watched a Teemo single handedly devour your entire team? That makes for an awkward conversation, especially when he tells you to stop showing up at the children's hospital panhandling for Percocet and Oxycontin. Do you guys have any? Never mind.

Have I ever dodged a game from someone who legitimately knew how to use an unconventional champion very well? Oh definitely.. probably. Does that make me regret it when that same guy destroys me on the other team? Hell. No. I have enough lolreplay files with the words "THIS IS WHY WE DODGE [ ]#31" in the title. The only difference is that now I know I can trust X summoner with Y champion. Trust is important. It makes the world go round. Without trust, we'd all be beating animals to death for dinner each night and running from dinosaurs to make it to our jobs. What I'm trying to say is that I don't trust you, and I totally want to outrun a dinosaur one day on my way to work. Why? Because Dinosaurs, that's why.

I'm all for rarely used champions making a come back. As I said before, I want every single champion in this game to be widely viable. That means someone can pick any champion and it will generally work in any situation. The problem is that's not how it works. I've gotten into enough arguments with people to know that you can defend every single champion in the game if you use the words 'in some team comps.' But I'm not queuing with people who are working together to make a certain comp work. I'm playing with randoms who are either picking that Sejuani (sorry to beat on her so much, but come on, she rides ****ing bacon) because they want to make a point, or they're just playing 'for fun', or they are that guy who constantly picks different champions and loses all of the time for it until he gets back on his main champion and puts his ELO back to wherever it was. I hate you, guy. I hate you so hard.

Why care about winning so much? I'm glad you asked that, voice in my head! You see, you may not remember a few months ago when a character known as Jabebot was able to give everyone their ELO ratings. The good part was that everyone was able to see where they stood next to their friends and rivalry. The bad part was that ELO immediately became the measuring stick for anything and everything. Have an opinion? Well you had better be at least 2.2k before even daring to speak it aloud. Want to insult someone for saying something that at first sounds really stupid? Well you better make sure he isn't someone who eats people at your level for breakfast, no matter how stupid his idea was! Seriously though, AD Annie? That guy's clearly a clown. The kind of clown that eats small children and is secretly a large spider out to end the known universe. Too much Steven King? Too bad.

Having a high ELO meant your opinion mattered, which is something we all want as human beings. There are a ton of people who are going to hate how that sounds, but I'd like to see anyone at 2.2k+ rating say that I'm wrong with a straight face. Nobody is going to listen to you at 1650 just because you're really persistent; you have to back that up first by proving your ideas are obviously the better ones by actually getting to a high rating. Can you think of any other situation where being an established expert will give you more credibility in whatever you're talking about? How about the entire ****ing modernized world?

Well, what if I don't care about people's opinions of me? Seriously someone find my medication, the voice in my head is getting really devil's advocate on me. There's another serious problem about finding yourself in lower ELO match making: Playing with even more idiots who have no idea how to play the champions they're trying to play.. Every time you lose, you're one step closer towards the fabled ELO hell. Now, that term means a lot of different things for people. Whatever your definition is, it really all comes down to the same thing: You're playing with idiots, the only way to not play with idiots is to be the super idiot and carry just enough to win more games than you lose. Honestly, it's not hard. This is coming from a guy who's level 21 smurf ended up playing with and against Sauron, twice. That's just one name, but I've seen cheese enema and other teams on that smurf. ELO hell isn't a death sentence, but I'd be lying if it can't be frustrating as all hell when you're playing with those ninja-cap Evelynn's who never, ever fight. If you're wondering why I have a smurf, it's because I don't like losing on my main account(duh!), and sometimes I have friends who want to play the game with me, but I don't want to hurt their feelings and start freaking out after the 5th loss in a row because the son of a ***** insists he can make Cho'gath work. No you can't, unnamed friend of mine, because Cho'gath isn't supposed to be an AD carry. Someone please find me better friends. Or a Dinosaur.

So losing sucks. Each loss lowers your overall worth in this community, and it's another step toward playing with even more of the kind of jackassery(is that word? it is now!) that caused your losses in the first place. Keep in mind that NONE of this is Dominion specific. This is pretty much the way it works in any online video game with match making. This is why there are some people who try to keep a serious face for just about every game, but that doesn't mean they aren't having fun. I'm also not even talking about the players who always pick the most conventional champions, because those guys are ****ing boring. But come on, why would you handicap four other people in the name of fun? Do you seriously have fun when four other people secretly hate you for ruining their game? I think that speaks a little more about you than the guys trying to win, because they're just trying to play the game the way it was meant to be played. You know, by trying to win. That's what you do in video games. You try to win. Is NOBODY getting the point here? Will someone PLEASE find my god****ed medication?

Now, I have no doubts people are going to find new ways to get all kinds of offended by what I've said. Someone will probably dig up my jabebot 1900-2K ELO from several months ago and say that my opinion of course doesn't mean anything (Thanks for proving my point, though, you jerk). My only advice to these people is to try not to find points I didn't explicitly state. I mean I obviously have no trouble writing 10 paragraphs for a ****ing video game forum. If I meant to say it, I'd say it, and I don't need your help to write my rant for me. I'm more than capable of complaining like a 13 year old girl on my own, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

I am also not saying that we should all always pick the same champions (I think this is the 4th time I'm saying this), and I'm not even saying there are that many champions so awful you should always dodge them. I could say that the proof is in the pudding, but I hate pudding the way I hate small children so I'll say instead that the amount of queue dodgers only gets higher as your ranking climbs. Whether it's because someone auto locked Bacon Princess again, or someone said something about Veigar in a sexual way, or even because the team locked in as 3 tank 2 support (if that works, I don't wanna know about it, and I curse you God for letting such abominations into this world). The point is that people are trying to preserve their ELO. Is it the 'right' thing to do? Ha, you wanna bring morals to the world of internet gaming? That's so cute I could pinch your cheeks and hate you like every other small child.

The game is what people make of it. If they aren't having fun, they'll stop playing on their own. No one is going to convince a 'try hard' that it's 'wrong' to queue dodge when it obviously gives them the results they want. No one is going to convince people whom play only for the fun of it that winning is more gratifying than losing. I'm probably not going to convince a single person that it's possible to win and have fun at the same time. No one is going to convince anyone of anything, except for maybe that we'll continue to play Dominion and scream at each other every time something annoys us... and that's fine.

I like screaming.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

AAARRRRGGGGGHHHH

Senior Member

07-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AstraeusRasgriz View Post
she rides ****ing bacon
gross


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

SpiderParadox

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

07-18-2012

Yes, I read your whole article.

This is a problem I see in everything I play but am not wholly invested in. LOL, fighting games, card games, everything. It's the difference from the tryhard (someone who values winning over all else) versus the scrub (someone who isn't willing to commit to what it would seriously take to win.)

Overall what it comes down to is this: Some people don't want to do what it takes to win, and they don't care if they get a high ELO, they just want to play the champ that's fun for them. Would they win if they played Jax, or Kass, or W/E? Probably, if they practiced, but maybe that's boring for that player. Unless there's some reward they're aiming for, there's no real argument for them not playing that way.

Personally, you see the reward of "high ELO= you're a bigshot" as your reason to do whatever it takes to win. And that's fine, but I am honestly not sure how you win many games if you continually demoralize your team by "raging" at them.

Long story short, even the "for fun" players want to win. That's the point of the game, they're just not willing to give up their playstyle or invest in the math, calculations, and research it would take to get that good at the game.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Rebonack

Senior Member

07-18-2012

In the proper sense Playing to Win means using the most powerful options available to you to achieve victory. People get bored of playing Cheesecake and Tier 1 champions all the time. And so every now and again you see someone like Nid who while decent isn't the most amazing thing ever.

That's really all there is to it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

AAARRRRGGGGGHHHH

Senior Member

07-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebonack View Post
People get bored of playing Cheesecake and Tier 1 champions all the time.
Gosh, I'm so tired of always winning. I wonder what losing nine games in a row feels like?

is that really what's going on


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

MilesMcStyles

Senior Member

07-18-2012

I never once thought of "Try-Hard" as being an insult and never will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiderParadox View Post
but I am honestly not sure how you win many games if you continually demoralize your team by "raging" at them.
Because the absolute most irresponsible thing to do is say nothing to a losing team. I'm pretty sure if they do what they're meant to do, I don't think he actually rages at them. Quite a concept, I know. The only problem is there's about 1% of the population that actually wants to improve, and the rest are already good and don't need to be yelled at, or don't care about winning and thus don't listen to anybody else. It doesn't matter if the advice is coming from a raging lunatic or a calm, confident leaderlike person who's patient and well-mannered and influential. That person who doesn't care isn't listening to any of it. If only they made a gamemode that's basically an admittance of trying hard, then we'd be getting atleast some distance from those people. Something like a ranked Dominion.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Redenbacher

Senior Member

07-18-2012

I read the whole thing... I'm not sure why... but I realized I didn't really need to read past this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AstraeusRasgriz View Post
You see, whenever I ***** at people either at champ select, or actually in the few games I make it to without dodging, I'm always labeled the same way. Either 'Try-Hard', or full of rage, or the classic 'no-life-nerd'.
There's no point in raging at your teammates. ***** at them until you're blue in the face, it's not going to get you anywhere except destroy any semblance of teamwork there might have been had you not decided to let the voices in your head do the typing.

Just keep your fingers stiff on QWER, unless you actually have something constructive to contribute... otherwise you're part of the problem.

You answered your own argument. Everyone plays the game for different reasons. You can't change that. Not here, and not in real life either. Motivations and values are different from person to person. You can either work with that person and use their perception in your favor, or fight it and waste your energy.

Pick your battles wisely.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

SpiderParadox

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

07-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AAARRRRGGGGGHHHH View Post
Gosh, I'm so tired of always winning. I wonder what losing nine games in a row feels like?

is that really what's going on
More like "man, it's boring when every game I play feels exactly the same."

Winning a boring match can be worse than losing an exciting one. I can guarantee no one's favorite match they played ever was when they had an OP team and pub stomped some scrubs.

@Miles: I would like to know when exactly you think in the history of anything ever at any time someone has heard unasked for criticism about ANYTHING they've done and not responded by being defensive about it. It's human nature. So your tactic is not going to make the "scrub" player any better, but what it is going to do is harbor resentment towards the player criticizing, which turns a match that you are losing into a match that is pretty much lost.

Maybe the OP isn't raging, but he *SAID* he was so I'm going to go with what he *SAID*


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

MilesMcStyles

Senior Member

07-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redenbacher View Post
There's no point in raging at your teammates. ***** at them until you're blue in the face, it's not going to get you anywhere except destroy any semblance of teamwork there might have been had you not decided to let the voices in your head do the typing.
Bullsh!t, the match is already over the moment you got paired with people who don't care about winning.


Quote:
@Miles: I would like to know when exactly you think in the history of anything ever at any time someone has heard unasked for criticism about ANYTHING they've done and not responded by being defensive about it. It's human nature. So your tactic is not going to make the "scrub" player any better, but what it is going to do is harbor resentment towards the player criticizing, which turns a match that you are losing into a match that is pretty much lost.
You're in the losing match in the first place because you have a scrub on your team. Saying nothing changes nothing in that scrub's head. If my options are to literally say nothing and have him gain NOTHING from a loss that he gave me, or being one of the hundreds that berates him for playing terribly, I'll choose the latter one hundred percent of the time.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Summoner Enst

Junior Member

07-18-2012

This guy writes hilarious articles.