Stop calling Darius OP

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AlmightyFork

Member

09-04-2012

Rengar with armor pen marks and quints, stacked ferocity, leaping from the bush qq'ing darius pwns him early game. Whats he gonna do, hit you with a handle? Pull you to the same spot? Waste an early ulti? Nah, just kitty pounce on him. It works, I promise.

Edit: For those who want more precision in my statement. You have 320 movement speed to start, I believe that is higher than darius. You get to two stacks, leap from the bush hitting him with an autoattack. You then pop your W to increase your armor (3 stacks), hit him with your Q for decent damage (4 stacks), slow him with E (5 stacks... oooooh), and smack him with another OP Q. Multiple variations allowed.


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Lethadind

Senior Member

09-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Trololo View Post
You can't just look at win rates to evaluate an overall champion, you have to take into account the power of their skills sets...End of discussion.
Um. Actually you can. Overpowered means that he has an unfair advantage. Unfair advantages allow you to win the game easier, hence win rates would follow. They don't.

Conclusion? Darius is not overpowered. Thanks for playing though.


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NinjaCalibur

Senior Member

09-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by themaddscientist View Post
I understand that a fed Darius can absolutely go to town on your team. I understand that he's hard to beat with most top characters. I also understand that you're probably mad at me for posting this thread in the first place.

Still, Darius isn't unbeatable. I have found that a tanky DPS such as Malphite and Chogath can both push him out of the lane.

For Malphite, my favorite solo top, my big problem is that before his ultimate, his only gap closer is his q, and it takes a lot of mana that you simply don't have sometimes. Darius fixes that for you and pulls you right towards him. Thank him for his service to your team by slowing his attack speed, movement speed, and by increasing your own attack damage and armor. Whenever a Darius does that to me, I don't run away and call him OP, that's exactly what he wants me to do. However, he's a tanky ad champ, but he's an ad champ, so I'm going to tank his abilities and make him regret fighting me. Nine times out of ten, I emerge with more health even before my passive comes back.

For Chogath, if he starts beating you around, throw your own weight around. If he pulls you, a scream in the face will keep him from using his other abilities on you. By the time that wears off, he's either running from or getting hit by your grounds spikes. You can go get some health by getting more cs while he gets to watch you in fear of something happening, such as you dropping your death-bringing ult first.

I'm sure there are other champions out there who can shut down Darius in the laning phase, but this has been my experience with two of my favorite top champions.

TL;DR Stop complaining, there are champs who can beat him.

You listed 2 champs out of 100. And try to label him not OP lol.
Anytime I lane against Darius with Garen I dominate Darius. Because my passive counters his.


But onto the real matter here. Darius is indeed OP. Every champion can be countered by something. But they shouldn't be uncounterable by 95% of other champs in their category. Darius' category being AD melee champ.
While Darius seems weak at first glance. His first hits doing nothing worth of damage compared to other melee AD fighters... suddenly he goes from taking barely any damage to tons of damage. Slows you from running from him, keeps proc'ing his passive, hits you with his Q as you get further away to do even more damage, and then pulls you back in to keep you next to him. And to finish off his maxed passive and your depleted HP he uses his Ultimate which does an incredible amount of true damage due to a full 5 stack of his passive. That lands him a guarantee kill AND a refresh on his ultimate.
Sorry to break it to you but... that is insanely OP. Dare Darius pull in a ranged champion with no defense what so ever? That champion is history much quicker.

Darius' passive is so deadly that Darius' main builds never have to be based on damage items. He can practically be built on just defensive items. Making him even more unstoppable. As he enters team fights tanky as hell, he starts wailing on enemies who are trying to kill his allies and are distracted. 1 sec, 2 sec, 3 sec 4... Goodbye to the enemy he's no more! A quick Q swipe to proc his passive on ALL the enemies around him every few seconds.... making his next swings even more deadly... as he uses his ult to finish off his first victim... he moves right onto his next, stacking damage quick, and then another quick finisher with his refreshed ult from his 1st kill. Rinse and repeat.....

Any champion who gets stronger with attack damage without the need to build attack damage items is absurdly OP in my book. Malphite and Irelia gain power in building tanky... that's OP. Jax as well.

Darius is just simply an OP ass champ.
All his attacks, including auto attacks proc his passive.... that alone is OP.
His skill kit is incredibly amplified by his passive. That is OP.
His passive prevents him from needing to waste gold on items for AD damage. Allowing him to build tanky and still do kill damage.. That is OP.
His passive can also cause a long deadly bleed that often kills running, barely surviving champs.

Any fed champ can be monstrous. Any sucky player can make a champ look bad. I've seen sucky players dominate with Darius just because they follow the instructions of a tanky build and love to aimlessly auto attack. Which is all Darius needs for his passive to proc.
A medicore player could dominate with Darius against most others. A good player would just not lose.

While Darius has weaknesses against ranged and AP damage champs.. Over time that damage becomes minimal with his tank builds. And when played properly in his lane to not feed he has no real weakness. As his build is based on defense and his damage is based on his passive... he needs not worry about building gold quick enough to do damage.

In a team fight, Darius is not the first to be targetted because of his tankability set. Which coincidentally allows him time to start munching away his passive on everyone. By the time the enemy team gets down his carry he's able to destroy the enemy carry and half the opposing team and be unkillable with his tanky-ness.

Darius would be pretty fun... pretty cool if his skill kit was re-balanced. But he's quite OP right now.


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NinjaCalibur

Senior Member

09-05-2012

I once won a 3v5 with just me as Garen top lane, Darius bot lane and I think a Jax mid lane. Our actual mid lane was afk from start and our other bottom lane champ was too. Taking Jax from jungle to mid and the 3 of us surprisingly just wiped the floor untouchably against the enemy team. They weren't bad either. But tanky Garen? And tanky Darius? And tanky Jax vs 1 tanky champ and a bunch of squishies... we just could not be beat. Not to mention we all had level on everyone solo laning. Garen, Jax and Darius are OP ass champs. Especially when played right.


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NinjaCalibur

Senior Member

09-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lethadind View Post
Um. Actually you can. Overpowered means that he has an unfair advantage. Unfair advantages allow you to win the game easier, hence win rates would follow. They don't.

Conclusion? Darius is not overpowered. Thanks for playing though.
Uh no you can't actually. Win/Loss ratio means nothing in League of Legends. Not to 1 champ and 1 player anyway. It's entirely a team based game. While you could be the best 1 player in the world, you can effortlessly quickly lose matches by playing with the worst players in the world on your team.

Overpowered comes in many forms of ways in League of Legends. In most cases, a champion's skill kit is actually always fine. The problem is the unbalance in the skill kit. For example, a 5 second long bleed passive on Darius that can stack 5 times in a row. And can be proc'd by nearly all his skills. And his skills gain increased damage from the stacks of his passive. And his ult as well. Which also gains a refresh upon kill.

Let's look at an underpowered champion. Talon. Some call him overpowered because he can do a lot of damage. Only the smart players out there know he's actually underpowered at best. Why?
His stat scaling per level and his overall skill kit scaling per level makes Talon's burst-ability fall off fast the longer the game progresses. Making him an overall weak AD champ by mid to late game. Destroying his whole purpose. Forcing him to start rebuilding into Attack Speed rather than Attack Damage. Which is still bad on him as he's a super squishy champ who can't stick around long enough in a team fight to be auto attacking without getting killed quick. He just becomes useful at taking towers down at one point.
Talon has a low mana regen which allows him maybe 3-5 skill uses in his first lane moments before he's out of mana and is forced to recall if he wants to be able to do anything other than auto attack. Which forces a good Talon player to have to wait and use his skills only at certain times.
Talon only works in mid to counter certain AP champs and solo top against certain squishier solo top champs. Hurts team if he's in any other lane doing anything else. That includes bottom lane. As he needs his level advantage over others and his personal farming for his damage.
Talon, if played right, laned right and doing alright can start to do insane burst damage. But in reality? Compare Talon to Akali and Talon is forever always insanely underpowered. You can build Akali pure AD and she still does more burst damage than Talon does at any point in the game. While she is also able to continually keep bursting without need of recall due to running on Energy which quickly refills while Talon runs on Mana.
All you need to be able to make Talon useless is to stack 1 good piece of armor on you and he can't ever harm you.
Keep in mind, this doesn't mean Talons can't get good games. Against low ELOs he can do fairly decent. As any champ can against no brainers when played properly.

Unbalance either goes in favor and makes you OP or the opposite. I just listed 2 champs with one and the other.


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Best Heca NA

Member

09-05-2012

I don't see why people sit there and complain about darius, Ok he is a Royal pain in the arse to take on, But ive seen countless times a fed darius in ranked turn useless late game. His only real power, fed or not is Early game, And it's not even his ult that Puts it over you. It's more or less his poke with his passive DoT. When i lane against a darius I notice that Throughout the whole lane phase, Im constantly being poked, Not by insane burst, But stupid amounts of DoT Along with his AA's Due to his passive making him be able to keep up. Darius is not op, He can be countered, **** if it's that much of the problem teams could use their head and swap mid and top lane, an AP range would wreck him played well.


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Lord Puppy Fury

Senior Member

09-05-2012

Any sort of range or CC makes Darius very sad. His grab is more or less useless if you can just farm from back by your tower and poke him occasionally.


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GaafGrohiik

Senior Member

09-05-2012

he is not OP at all. easily countered by range and tankier characters.

use the same strategy against him as any other champ - play smart, dont get greedy, win.


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Lethadind

Senior Member

09-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaCalibur View Post
Uh no you can't actually. Win/Loss ratio means nothing in League of Legends.
I basically stopped reading after this, skimming through I saw it was a rant about Talon being underpowered.

Apparently you are all ignoring the laws of statistics (something that is thrown in our faces all the time about ELO Hell).

Let me enlighten you.

The Law of Large Numbers states that after a certain amount of experiments performed, even though each outcome will be different, the averages of all outcomes will resemble a bell curve, giving a true average of the result. I believe the law requires 30ish to resemble a bell curve, with more and more showing the true bell curve of results.

There are several thousand "experiments" with Darius being used in a match. If his skillset was overpowered, it would provide a team with an edge that, all other things considered equal (with thousands of experiments this becomes true), would cause them to win more often than lose. They don't. In fact they lose more often than they win.

For more proof check Talon's recents stats yourself, especially the platinum stats. You'll see he bounces all over the place in terms of win ratio. Why? Because he is an early-game "shut-down-the-AP-mid" champ, usually. When he does his job well, the team wins, when he doesn't, they don't. This is his job. His success is based off of a number of early game factors including the jungler's intervention, his lane opponent, and just how well he plays early. He is entirely dependent on his early-game, and the sporadic statistics show this perfectly. Renekton's stats reflect the same early-game dependent results. If you check other champion's platinum stats, they still bounce around, but not nearly as much.

By the laws of statistics Darius is not overpowered. Why are we still discussing this?


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I Found Baron

Senior Member

09-06-2012

Ok, Clearly is dmg is what makes a champion op these people saying darius is op would be calling out karthus more, guess he takes a bit of skill dont he. Also it is important to note that its not just dmg that makes a champ op. rivens high hp regen for example, make her really strong. or what about how yorick is tank with sustain and good sufficient dmg and poke/ utility all that good stuff. makes it really had to beat a yorick unless you outplay him which is even hard with his sustain. overall people who think darius is op might not be playing against him correctly in lane but nonetheless I can agree on only one thing, his ult if it is not used for the killing blow he has 90 seconds till he uses it again which isnt that punishing for not landing a killing blow if u think about it. I like how his ult works and refreshes it does not seem to be causing problems that are OP IMO. given all these threads about darius he probably will get some change because there is a history of threads and game changes not that i mean anything by this.