Elo hell, myth? or fact?

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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

07-16-2012

Whether trolls, bad players, or whatever, the fact of the matter is, the 4 players on your team are drawn from the same pool as the 5 players on the enemy team (and you're in that same pool).

Now, granted, sometimes you can get the slightly shorter end of the stick and get 4 players that are all worse than the 5 on the enemy team. Sometimes, though, you're going to get the slightly longer end of the stick, and get 4 teammates that are all better than the 5 on the enemy team.

Over time though, that's going to average out. The average teammate of yours will be approximately identical skill level to the average enemy of yours. If YOUR skill level is ABOVE this average, you will be winning more games than you are losing. Just think about it. Five players at average skill level for the ELO bracket versus four players at average skill level for the bracket plus yourself. If your skill level is above the bracket, you're going to win more games than you lose. If your skill level is below, you'll lose more than you win. And if you're in the right ELO bracket, your wins and losses will be about even.


The trick is not in getting good teammates. As I explained, your average teammate will be exactly as good as your average enemy. No better, no worse. No, the trick is in remembering it is a team game and figuring out how to make your average teammates play at an above average level and work as a team (because ALL of you want a win). I'll give you a hint, raging at your teammates doesn't work.


Heck, funniest thing happened to me the other day. It wasn't a ranked, it was a normal, but nonetheless. I was bottom lane. Me and my laning partner were doing poorly. We fed an enemy 7-0 pretty quickly. No one on our team complained. The other two lanes were winning, and while we were feeding, our turret wasn't at risk. We calmed down, got some focus, and played more defensively. Pretty soon top and mid start winning their lanes. The enemy MID started complaining in [All] chat about his teammates. He did this for most of the match. Pretty soon, we were up 5 turrets to 1 on them, and after the enemy said yet another complaint (suggesting we report one of his teammates for feeding), I responded, informing him that if he'd be more supportive and less negative, they might be winning. I don't normally have games as bad as the one I had that match. But my team won. And we won because as a team, we were concerned more with what we can do to improve our current play and get the win, and less concerned with assuming that bottom lane feed has already cost us the match and we're going to figure out who to blame.

Be constructive and supportive of your teammates and you will win a lot more games than you lose.


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Sarabade

Junior Member

07-16-2012

Riot needs to do something about trolls in the character selection, maybe you could vote a person out of the queue, Ive been trying to play a ranked game all day , and all I get is annie jungle, swain support, 1st time champs, 3 people mid... trolls and trolls , now at least you dont loose elo when you dodge, but Ive been banned from queue for about 3h now, while the trolls get to play, because they simply dont care about loosing elo, so since I do care Im forced to dodge. Riot fix this, invest your time on this. Please.


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Rawrful

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Senior Member

07-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarabade View Post
Riot needs to do something about trolls in the character selection, maybe you could vote a person out of the queue, Ive been trying to play a ranked game all day , and all I get is annie jungle, swain support, 1st time champs, 3 people mid... trolls and trolls , now at least you dont loose elo when you dodge, but Ive been banned from queue for about 3h now, while the trolls get to play, because they simply dont care about loosing elo, so since I do care Im forced to dodge. Riot fix this, invest your time on this. Please.
These things are always really interesting to me. I've played in ranked games with people you seem to think are trolls, but they really aren't.

I've played with people who last pick support LeBlanc. Then they rush a Soul Stealer, roaming gank, and make the enemy rage so hard they surrender at 20. Flat AP on LeBlanc very nasty when you have a phys carry who can burst as well. I've played against support Swain in normal, and it worked pretty much the same way. While non-standard and risky, it really isn't as bad as you seem to think.

I've played support Annie in ranked, and again drew a 20 minute surrender from my opponents because flat AP runes on a nuker with a hard stun and a burst damage carry is very hard to play against if you don't know exactly what you are doing. My allies all said they were going to report me when I picked, and I got nothing but *****ing for the first 5 minutes, until I got my phys carry a double kill. After the second double kill they started complimenting me. Then they apologized.

I've won a ranked game where a duo queue said they were going to do a kill lane top, and that someone should pick a bottom that could 1v2. I picked Nidalee, and let myself get a little zoned bottom, collected what farm I could, and we crushed the game because our top pushed to inhib before their bottom could take my tower. Top was shut down so hard that their jungler couldn't help enough to matter.

Heck, I won a ranked game this season with a first pick AP jungle Eve without flash who instalocked and said nothing the entire game. But he counter jungled very effectively and ganked well enough that we did fine.


In short, yes. Trolls exist and you will run into them. Everyone has had games with trolls on their team. But everyone has also played games against trolls. And the biggest problem is when people see something non-standard they call troll and rage themselves to a loss (Or they dodge and come to the forum to complain). Non-standard play is risky, but sometimes it crushes (Look at M5 in tournaments, as a good example). Don't assume that just because the enemy has a standard metagame team and you have a phys carry top, and a LeBlanc+Pantheon bottom you will lose.


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Sam Is Whoa

Senior Member

07-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abacadavar View Post
LOL not true, its so incredibly easy to carry from 900-1200 elo tbh. Even if you get unlucky with random ****, there is the same probability of that happening to the other team. But 95% (yes 95, leavers aren't as often as you think) of your games would be legit 5v5's and in those games all you have to do is have a ****in massive win in your lane (im not talking winning by 10 cs and a kill, im talking winning like 60+cs and up by 6 bloody kills.) Then everyone on the other team surrenders! Yay! Now if you can't win lane that hard, then maybe you belong on that elo l0l.

All the ******* which talk about solo queue being all luck, thats BS. If your team mates are bad and you are semi decent, that makes 4 bad people on your team but 5 bad people on the other team lol. So what if you get a leaver in one game? You probably have been on the other side of the spectrum before, having an ez win in a 5v4.

tl;dr get out of the low elo by just bloody winning your lane, who would of thought!!
Lol win lane win game. You couldnt be any more wrong. Its not even remotely possible to win your lane by 60 cs and 6 kills up every game. I love how cocky you are like you can destroy everybody you come across. There are good players in lower elo that can last hit well.

Why does everyone have to be bad? Elo hell isnt everybody sucks except you. Its ppl who play rank who can only do 1 or 2 positions and feed out of their minds if not in that position (sometimes if they are). Elo hell is when first pick bans leona and annie and then instalocks nasus. Elo hell is when your jungle fiddle trys to counter jungle against lee sin and dies yelling "wheres my team noobs". Elo hell is when soraka goes afk for the first 10 min and says "i hate riot servers".

So lets go over something that plagues me. Your unranked have a 27-21 win loss and have a positive W/L with 2 characters. You have no real rank experience and your solution is ridiculous. Dont say just be pro if you cant do it yourself.


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Fluffyknowsyou

Senior Member

07-16-2012

xD Gotta love lolking

But honestly I think elo hell extends far into the 1300's because any provisional noob with less than 20 games under his/her belt can hit 1300 before dropping like a rock.


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jclcoolrunner04

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Junior Member

07-16-2012

If u r in elo hell, get good at rammus amumu or malphite jungle, they can get u out no problem, now that u don't lose rank for dodging, just dodge if u cant get one of them. And find something to do for 30 minutes while wait for penalty time.


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puddimaster42

Junior Member

07-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by zliplus View Post
I main support, and I 'carried' myself up to 1600+, and I disagree that ELO Hell exists (at least around 1200). I started ranked pretty close to right after I hit 30, with 2 rune pages and only the cheap champs. I pretty much could only play 1 champ per role before I decide on focusing on support. (I still can only play 1 champ per role with any real decency except support.)

My initial games were up and down and left me at around 1200 ELO. My next 250 games or so were fairly similar, hitting a high of 1450 but for the most part cycling between 1150-1350. It was only recently (after I picked up Taric) that I had my big breakthrough, going something like 37-12 in the past two weeks to reach where I am now. Of course, people are now discovering that Taric's quite strong (the strongest support according to lolking statistics) but I decided to pick him up because he was never seen just a few weeks ago.

Here's a summary of the differences I've seen between the 1150-1350 range and higher:

Trolls, leavers, disconnects: these get a bit rarer as you go up, but they were never all that prevalent even at sub-1200. One key point is that these are more likely if someone/the team does poorly early in the game, and far, far more likely if rage occurs.

Team coordination/awareness: awareness is very patchy at low ratings; you can often get one person who is hyper-aware and constantly pinging/calling on other lanes and others who have zero awareness in a single team. This is a very dangerous source of rage, especially if someone gets ganked. As ELO rises, basic awareness rises so people tend
to be more even, but actual coordination is still very patchy.

Individual skill: overall, skill levels are closer at higher ELOs. At the very least, most people know how to avoid feeding, even if they lose an early fight or get ganked and have to lose lane. It's much rarer to have a single person truly carry the entire team. Games are more likely to last longer, making teamfights matter (and potentially, a single bad mistake losing the game).

After all that, here are my tips on getting out of 'ELO Hell':

1. Be patient. It takes time to get out; ELO rises slowly with many ups and downs unless you are truly way over-skilled and can hypercarry. You will get occasional games where you can't do anything, where every lane loses, where it's 4v5, etc. Even if you lose, accept it, deal with it, and move on. Complaining about ELO Hell is pointless, and whatever you do, try to avoid letting a bad game ruin more games.

2. Focus on early game. The lower the ELO, the more true this is: early game matters. Many, many games are over before 20 minutes. This is not only because the greater skill differentials lead to snowballs, but because many people are unable to handle being down and start whining, raging, trolling, leaving, all of which lead to reduced team performance, which leads to surrendering at 20. You can focus on early game either by being aggressive or defensive. You can pick strong bully champs (early dmg, cc), focus on fighting, invade enemy jungle, ward enemy jungle, camp lanes, etc. to be aggressive. You can pick safe champs (escapes, cc) with good late games, focus on farming and staying back, defend against invades, ward your own jungle, be ready to support other lanes, etc to be defensive.

3. Reduce rage. This is the most important point, but also the most difficult to do all the time. The first and most obvious action is not rage yourself, but that's certainly not all. If possible, you should try to avoid anyone else raging as well. This may involve playing peacekeeper between other team members, playing safe in lane to avoid deaths, repeatedly helping other lanes, unless specifically request not to, etc. Help weaker team members with actions, not words - gank for them if behind, with multiple people if too far behind with just one. If they just can't ward, ward for them. If they have zero awareness, countergank when you see the gank coming. Do not 'help' by telling them what to do, how to build (unless they ask) - it is very risky and likely to cause offense. Remember though that you can only do so much, and let it go if they/you lose anyways.
this was the most helpful, and i can see it is true as my friend did nothing but ranked games. every single game he would rank, never normal. and hes 1400's now when he was in my position before.

to be honest the biggest problem i have is things that seem so clear or simple to me I guess aren't to others. and the one thing i pride myself on is having very good map awareness ^_^ (hence i love wards so much).

so i'll take your words into consideration and see where this leads me. sadly tho i think i may have to support and jungle to get a better elo as they seem to be the roles that affect the game the most.

TL;DR ill whine less and persevere more


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trackmaster

Senior Member

07-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by puddimaster42 View Post
this is a common misconception. this statement assumes that the other team is bad and that you are the best player in the match. you think there arent other players good in low elo? i know that statment is hilarious to itself but its too true. other good players get stuck in low elo too. but i agree jungle would be the best to get out of the bad elo
My point is that it works both ways. My friends didn't ward any lane, but at least one lane on the other side didn't either. So that lane I could gank easy and I'd ward for my friends. It wasn't even ranked, but I could keep winning all day with higher level play.


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OuityDrood

Senior Member

07-16-2012

Last game I jungles I went 8/0 Nocturne. We lost. 0/7 Ashe 1/9 Swain.

Don't even give me the "shoulda helped ur da jungle!" Bull**** because I can only be in 1 place. I was trying desperately to keep top from succumbing while keeping mid and bot out of the shifter too. All you mid/ high elo players who've never had to deal with this **** tell us in the gutter that all we have to do is hypercarry 4 dead weights and we'll do fine! BULL****. Everyone in ell hell is still Lvov 30 and they know how to play this game. The problem is it's not about our individual skill, it's about how well you can work as a team. If you ha e good teamwork you win the game. Period. I had a bad game before where I was middling Fizz against a LeBlanc. I'll admit I was getting hit hard. I'm not used to fighting Leblanc and by the time I find a method to fight effectively (dash in proc W and trickster away before her burst) I was 1/4.By this time a friendly Soroka made it into my lane, it's not looking good, we're all negative and Draven is ready to quit when not only do Soroka and I kill LeBlanc, but we also get the enemy jungler. Both of them were on mad crazy sprees and we totally shut them down. From 10 kills down Soroka and Ai turned our beast modes on and proceeded to rounds up our wayward allies and win teamfight after teamfight. That's the first ranked I've won in a month. When we got the team to cooperate we floored them. Soroka was 6/5/21 while I pulled out a 13/8/6. Not insane, but enough to swing the game. Now I won't toot my own horn here, but I can play this game. my Lvl 1-20 I played queen with Lvov 30 friends. I play with 1800 ell players. I can hit up to 40 jungle kills and shred a 1 v 3 BUT I NEED A TEAM THERE TO HELP. I can't singlehandedly win a lane as support I'm not that good, I'll admit it! My ADC has to help me and work well with me or we're both ****ed. Higher elope players know how to work as a team, that's how they get where they are. They can cooperate with eachother and sure there are always players who stand out but that's just an appatizer. People in elk hell rage and AFK. They make stupid decisions and stray from the group. It exists, and I really don't think you should tell us what it is unless you've been there yourself.


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immakillmyself

Member

07-17-2012

**** is real.