@RiotNome Is Tankadin really getting possible nerfs next patch?

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Tortferngatr

Senior Member

07-13-2012

http://summonermatch.com/patchnotes.php

Kassadin
Riftwalk
Damage changed to 60/70/80 (+0.8 AP) from 60/90/120 (+0.5 AP)
Subsequent Riftwalks now deal 60/70/80 additional damage from 60/90/120

Given this change (if it happens) really only effects mana stacking Kassadins (which last I checked weren't popular on SR), I want to ask a question:

1. Did you have a hand in suggesting this? If so, you are amazing
2. Are there going to be other changes like this that affect Dominion/TT balance without affecting SR balance? Was this meant to help with Dominion?
3. ...What exactly is going on with the Urgot...buffs...in the same page? Is Acid Hunter getting changed to bonus AD to compensate?

Bonus: How good is Zyra on Dominion, and can you talk to Phreak about Zyra's best playstyle? It would mean the world if you could convince Phreak to have Dominion summoner spells include Revive...


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inFe eD

Senior Member

07-13-2012

Considering Urgot is considered OP on SR, it's almost certainly a change to bonus AD, which would be a massive nerf.

The Kass change is a good start, and I'm thrilled that it seems to actually be a change designed for Dominion specifically, but realistically, it doesn't change the amount of damage he deals by much at all. By the time the decreased ratios kick in at level 16, tank kass should already have itemized some AP. He'll lose a moderate amount of damage, but he'll still be absurdly mobile and impossible to pin down.

Malphite nerf is nice, although again, it's because he's OP on SR.


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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

07-13-2012

Urgot E nerf is also substantive, less E>QQQQ cycles. More reason to get more than just 1 pt in E before maxing Q.


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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

07-13-2012

Infe eD, it's a big nerf to Kassadin on Dominion, because stacks don't have an AP Ratio.

1 Rift, need 133 AP to balance damage, 2nd Rift, need 266 AP to balance, 5th rift, which happens on Dominion: Need ~750 AP to balance. So big nerf to tankassadin.
If you only rift once or twice, it can be a buff, but that's not how things happen on Dominion.


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konfetarius

Senior Member

07-13-2012

*bah correcting mistake

Nah, it's a minor nerf at best. You realistically don't get more than 6 rift casts. Assuming Archangels + Void Staff (200ish AP):

Pre-nerf - 220 + 340 + 460 + 580 + 700 + 820 = 3120 magic damage
Post Nerf - 240 + 320 + 400 + 480 + 560 + 640 = 2640 magic damage


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inFe eD

Senior Member

07-13-2012

It's a 30% nerf to his R damage that shrinks dramatically as he gets more AP. It's not going to affect Kass's status as a permaban much, if at all.


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Ikruti

Senior Member

07-13-2012

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I follow the stack math. Let's ignore the first rift. Each subsequent rift only has a damage difference of 40, i.e. it went from a flat 120 to a flat 80. That's 40 damage difference. After 5 rifts, you're looking at a damage difference of 5 * 40, so 200. Given that it's now a 0.8 AP ratio, that leads to a requirement of 250 AP to make up for the stacks.

Am I missing something here?


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konfetarius

Senior Member

07-13-2012

The total difference grows with every cast.

O: 120 + 240 + 360 + 480 + 600 + 720
N: 80 + 160 + 240 + 320 + 400 + 480
D: 40 _ 80 _ 120 _ 160 _ 200 _ 240

You need 133 AP to cover the first difference and 133 per additional one.*

*OK Maybe I am missing something here I am bad a math doing more bad maths until I get right maths

**OK, I think I see what you mean - you are looking at AP needed to make up for the loss of just base damage. I am looking at the difference that accounts for the AP bonus to the pre-nerf Rift Stack.

But, again, this doesn't affect much. This loss represents a small fraction of late game Kass damage, and he still has:
1. Pretty much the best silence in the game.
2. Spammable AoE slow.
3. Godmode mobility.


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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

07-13-2012

I usually get to fights with 2 stacks already, let's say the fight lasts long enough for 3 rift-walks (long!)
That's 3+4+5 riftwalks, for a total of 12 riftwalk bases, with 3 AP ratios.
Under old, that'd be 1440 +1.5 AP ratio.
Under new, that's 960 + 2.4 AP Ratio.

So you need 0.9 AP ratio to be equivalent to 480 in order to not lose damage, meaning you need 533 AP. Unlikely.

You'll lose damage. Maybe not a lot, but you're going to lose damage. Things look better if you come into the fight with 0 stacks, but how often does that happen all the time? And the more stacks, the less damage you do compared to what you did before.


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Quincunx

Senior Member

07-13-2012

I agree that this potential nerf will not affect Kassadin's OP status, but at least it is a nerf, and at least it shows that the developers are willing to try to directly solve some of the champion balance issues with Dominion (personally though, I don't see why they don't just cap the damage from riftwalk stacks).