Katarina: STOP rushing Rylai's Crystal Sceptre...

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Aregionius

Senior Wrenchman

07-12-2012

Someone wrote a huge, in-depth guide comparing Rylai's, Gunblade and Deathcap for Katarina. I forget if it was here on the forums on one of the guide sites, but it pretty much came to the same conclusion. Even getting 2 gunblades or 2 deathcaps was more damage efficient than Rylais.

You can also add in the 2 cents from Tiensi's build which was written up here, http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/179925 Same conclusion.

The one caveat to this is the plat guides for Dominion do sometimes include Rylai's. Survivability for Kat in a reduced teamfight scenario and the increased value of HP on that map leads Rylai's to potentially have a place in her build.


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Ur little sister

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aregionius View Post
Someone wrote a huge, in-depth guide comparing Rylai's, Gunblade and Deathcap for Katarina. I forget if it was here on the forums on one of the guide sites, but it pretty much came to the same conclusion. Even getting 2 gunblades or 2 deathcaps was more damage efficient than Rylais.

You can also add in the 2 cents from Tiensi's build which was written up here, http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/179925 Same conclusion.

The one caveat to this is the plat guides for Dominion do sometimes include Rylai's. Survivability for Kat in a reduced teamfight scenario and the increased value of HP on that map leads Rylai's to potentially have a place in her build.
Yes, I know xD.
The point is that I get criticised A LOT for saying it. Just recently I decided to write a Katarina guide (mobafire though :s. Been using that platform), and like all the downvotes I get everywhere (in discussions and in that build and wherever) are generally about my "rediculous/stupid claim that Gunblade is better than Rylai on Kat".

The thing is, I LOVE Katarina, and I know Riot is reworking her. Therefore, it's in my interest to get people to know her correctly. I worry a bit that the horribly bad understanding of Katarina as a champion a lot of players seem to have (most if my sample audiences count for somehting) would influence the feedback and wishes from the community into demanding a worse/less fun champion from Riot. (Or not demanding a better / more fun one if Riot were to "screw it up". I realize Kat's a difficult champion to balance.)


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WillWW

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ur little sister View Post
I know :p.
Others include, but are not limited to:
- itemizing specifically for CDR. (WIth which I mean actually actively trying to get cdr at the cost of other stats)
- maxing Shunpo
- going hella agressive from lvl 1 on
- lvl 1 amp tome
Yeah, I laugh when I see a kat build cdr boots. That just means theyre not confident enough to play her. I used to max shunpo first and then I realized I was doing it totally wrong.


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Ur little sister

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillWW View Post
Yeah, I laugh when I see a kat build cdr boots. That just means theyre not confident enough to play her. I used to max shunpo first and then I realized I was doing it totally wrong.
You'd be surprised how many people want to tell me that stacking CDR on kat to increase shunpo harass is the real way of playing her though .

In your defence though, the game used to be different.
The average AP had a lower range (--> less retaliation from shunpo harass)
The average jungler used to gank both less, and not so early in the game.
Average cs used to be lower (errbody going for shoving lanes hard and killing rather than focussing on cs), so the cs you lose from not using Q well was compensated partially.

--> Shunpo maxing got worse than it used to be.


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grundomnia

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Member

07-12-2012

ah this is an interesting thread. I have a few questions for Ur little sister.

1. What's your build?

2. I usually max out my blades and put only a point or two on shunpo and use it as a utility until late game. Is that the right thing to do?

3. Personally the real reason I get a Rayleigh's is for the slow to keep them in for that 1-2 extra blade does the gunblade cover for that 1-2 extra blade I'd get from rayleigh?

4. I'd also like to hear on what summoner spells you use


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Hirumonogatari

Senior Member

07-13-2012

i used to go rylai's first.

then i watched tiensi's guide, and one line struck out at me.

if you go gunblade, you're wanting kills, straight up. if you go rylai's, you're telling your teammates "hey guys, i'm just going to slow them and assist you guys in some damage so you guys can get the kill mkay?"

that message sure got through.


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Ur little sister

Senior Member

07-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by grundomnia View Post
ah this is an interesting thread. I have a few questions for Ur little sister.

1. What's your build?

2. I usually max out my blades and put only a point or two on shunpo and use it as a utility until late game. Is that the right thing to do?

3. Personally the real reason I get a Rayleigh's is for the slow to keep them in for that 1-2 extra blade does the gunblade cover for that 1-2 extra blade I'd get from rayleigh?

4. I'd also like to hear on what summoner spells you use
I'll be happy to answer that friend

Some starting notes:
- I feel Katarina is only viable as a burst assassin champion. Going support or tanky dps mage (vlad/ryze style) is something I feel she gets outshined in.
- Her main skill that I (and the top kat players who I shamelessly copy) focus around is her passive, Voracity. Think about it: killing an ennemy (or even assisting) instantly refreshes a large portion of your burst damage output, and your mobility. If Katarina can secure a kill, it is near impossible to kill her, AND she gets the potential to do it again instantly. This is the source of the infamous Katarina triple-pentakills in under 3 seconds flat.
- Permanent slows aren't as useful as they're made out to be. Because ennemies 'running out of your ult' is almost never the limiting factor in your damage output. It's usually ennemies flashing/dashing out of your ult, or hard cc.

1.a) I basically rush Hextech Gunblade. Everything past that is situational. The reason is that gunblade is your main single target damage item, which in turn gives you the best chance to proc Voracity. On top of that, you get the strongest single-target slow in the game (check the active), on a similar cooldown as your ult. It also offers sustain. I believe Katarina's bouncing blades count as a single-target spell for each individual Q bounce, so you really sustain more than you'd think.

1.b) Why is the rest situational? Because Katarina is an assassin who suffers from the "help, I have a lot of trouble with tanky dps champions" syndrome. The mobility, tankyness and relative fed-ness of your ennemies compared to you is a big factor in deciding what your build should be. Also, there are several viable routes at higher level of play, and frankly I haven't had the time to test them all out recently.

1.c) SIGHT WARDS!!! These are the most cost-efficiŽnt item on Katarina in the game. Free shunpo to wherever you please, 3 minutes of vision AND a fixed shunpo spot on that area.

2) No. Maxing BB is a must, but Killer Instincts is a tad boring. The 1st rank maxes out it's utility with BB, so maxing it only decreases the cooldown a bit, adds a small damage portion and 5% damage reduction in shunpo. Now I only very rarely use W with shunpo, and maxing E first reduces the cooldown of your escape skill, as well as giving you a lot more burst damage (--> more voracity procs --> even more damage)

3) Yes, as my build answer alrdy covered. The slow on gblade is stronger. Also mind that even if you'd miss 2 daggers, this is compensated by Gblade just offering you plain more damage across the line.

4) Ignite and Flash. Ignite to secure kills and proc shunpo, flash to increase your max damage combo range to 1100.
Some people take ignite, but that's essentially useless if you plan on buying gunblade or rylai because slows don't stack

If you really want to learn her decently (Took me a week or something just to get the info on her):
- I wrote a kat guide: http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-le...n-build-221824
- Look up TiensiNoAkuma on youtube. Watch ALL his videos . That's essentially how I learned her. If you want more great kat streamers/vids, you can look up Scarra (team Dignitas' mid player I think) playing Katarina too. Scarra's awesomesauce.


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Ur little sister

Senior Member

07-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSZHUNG View Post
i used to go rylai's first.

then i watched tiensi's guide, and one line struck out at me.

if you go gunblade, you're wanting kills, straight up. if you go rylai's, you're telling your teammates "hey guys, i'm just going to slow them and assist you guys in some damage so you guys can get the kill mkay?"

that message sure got through.
Haha, yea.
I bought katarina initially because I wanted a cheap pubstomping assassin to have fun with. Heard about this 2k+ ELO player who plays her exclusively. Looked it up. When he said those words, that just changed everything for me too xD. I was like "wait a minute... Kat's an assassin... He's making sense! :O"


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ExecutionerK

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Senior Member

07-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ur little sister View Post
I know .
Others include, but are not limited to:
- itemizing specifically for CDR. (WIth which I mean actually actively trying to get cdr at the cost of other stats)
- maxing Shunpo
- going hella agressive from lvl 1 on
- lvl 1 amp tome
No bro, maxing shunpo is possible if the enemy lack early game ability to kill you, even though it rarely happen.


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Ur little sister

Senior Member

07-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExecutionerKen View Post
No bro, maxing shunpo is possible if the enemy lack early game ability to kill you, even though it rarely happen.
1) Name 1 champion who can't get the early game advantage on you if you shunpo onto them early. The only candidates I can think of are champions who are stupid enough to waste their damage skills on lasthitting a minion whilst venturing in range of you.
2) Junglers: they will utterly destroy you if their team has a brain
3) lasthits