Katarina: STOP rushing Rylai's Crystal Sceptre...

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Ur little sister

Senior Member

07-11-2012

Being a regular Katarina player, having both tried it out extensively and having done the math several times, there is one issue that eludes me.

Why do so many people KEEP insisting that buying Rylai's Crystal Scepter as Katarina's first or second big item is a remotely good idea? And why, oh why is it that people pair this with WoTA?

Kat's main item, as every Katarina player I've ever seen play above 1500 ELO can demonstrate, is Gunblade. Yet time after time people tell me that Rylai (combo-ed with WoTA) is way better.

Maybe a small comparison could help. I just did the math on this as a reply to 1 guy who's ppb never going to answer anyway, and just felt like posting it so it at least doesn't go to waste entirely. The comparison includes 2 damage figures for each item route, being single-target burst damage due to scalings and the Hextech active. 1st figure = ult instantly interrupted, 2nd figure = full ult damage. Only scalings are included because base damage is independant on item build.

Gunblade: 409-784 (cost: 3625 gold)
Rylai + WoTA: 176-576 (cost: 5605 gold)
Difference: 233-208 more single-target damage in favor of Gunblade. Price: 1980 in favor of Gunblade.

Rylai + WoTA pro's:
- Also slow ennemies when you're not going for a kill. Great for supporting your carry!
- 500 more health
- give your allies spellvamp too!

Gunblade pro's:
- A LOT more damage
- 15% lifesteal
- 1980 extra gold to spare.

Why the hell do players keep seriously insisting that the Rylai + WoTA build is a better combination for a burst-assassin playstyle Katarina? It really looks more like a support build or tanky dps mage to me. (2 roles in which she gets outshined by far)


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ExecutionerK

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Senior Member

07-11-2012

The moment you buy Rylai, you are putting your AP carry (Kat in this case) to also assist your team in term of CC.

The real pro for Rylai is the slow on bouncing blade, it helps a lot in team fight, but yes, you do lost a lot of damage.

Gunblade on the other hand offers a really strong single target slow, and lot more damage.

The only time when I will buy Rylai on Kat will be a time when I need the slow to decrease the usefulness of certain enemy abilities, which will includes shyvana, tryndamere


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Magíc Man

Senior Member

07-11-2012

See, I always laugh when people buy a revolver first, even though they don't have enough damage to actually get any use from the spell vamp, as well as not having enough hp to survive long enough in a fight. Gunblade first may not always be bad, but neither is Rylai's. I can't recall the last time I've lost as Kat in mid starting with a negatron and a Rylai's.


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Noxian Mercenary

Senior Member

07-11-2012

Revolver has a huge amount of sustain. each time you throw a Q, it should get you about 40 health. Your E also gives you roughly the same amount. This is enough to the point where you can start trade-harassing with Shunpo, provided you're not facing Malzahar or Annie.

Not only that, it obviously builds into Gunblade. Kat's secret lover is not the damage - it's the slow.


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acosn

Senior Member

07-11-2012

Anyone who makes WotA their first item is bad, of severely under farmed.

There's no good reason to invest in an aura item early in the game that doesn't translate into a gold efficient aura, and with just one beneficiary it's simply not.

Depending on who you're fighting Rylai's can be good, and even essential.

Still, HTGB should typically be your first item on Kat. If you want survivability just buy the Giant's belt.


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Ur little sister

Senior Member

07-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by InF165 View Post
See, I always laugh when people buy a revolver first, even though they don't have enough damage to actually get any use from the spell vamp, as well as not having enough hp to survive long enough in a fight. Gunblade first may not always be bad, but neither is Rylai's. I can't recall the last time I've lost as Kat in mid starting with a negatron and a Rylai's.
So you check out 2+k ELO streams to laugh at katarina players or what? "haha, tiensi so noob kat. Lawl, scarra scrub"?

Rylai first is horrible. The point of this post was to demonstrate that with logic. However, since people aren't convinced by logic but rather by emotions, think about a shiny little kitty for a bit. Now read the math again. (Or try it out extensively. Because I have, and for the reasons mentioned, I cannot imagine anybody doing remotely near as good when rushing a rylai than when rushing a gblade)


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Amoc

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by InF165 View Post
See, I always laugh when people buy a revolver first, even though they don't have enough damage to actually get any use from the spell vamp, as well as not having enough hp to survive long enough in a fight. Gunblade first may not always be bad, but neither is Rylai's. I can't recall the last time I've lost as Kat in mid starting with a negatron and a Rylai's.
You lost at mid because you built expensive defensive items on a snowballing AP carry. Saying you "start" with Rylai's and Negatron is a joke. You're already pretty much at mid game by the time you've spent that much money and you won't be doing enough burst damage to be a real threat when teamfights start.


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Noxian Mercenary

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Rushing revolver then building a Negatron (which builds into Abyssal - after Gunblade) is a perfect counter to almost all mids.


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GranMasterDouche

Member

07-12-2012

Whenever I see another Kat I get scared for a bit that they'll actually be good. 9 times out of 10 it's misplaced anxiety. Building Rylai's is just one more way they screw it up.


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Ur little sister

Senior Member

07-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GranMaster****** View Post
Whenever I see another Kat I get scared for a bit that they'll actually be good. 9 times out of 10 it's misplaced anxiety. Building Rylai's is just one more way they screw it up.
I know .
Others include, but are not limited to:
- itemizing specifically for CDR. (WIth which I mean actually actively trying to get cdr at the cost of other stats)
- maxing Shunpo
- going hella agressive from lvl 1 on
- lvl 1 amp tome