@Riot: Trundle

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AzureDarkNESS

Senior Member

07-22-2012

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Auk0

Junior Member

07-22-2012

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The Cpt America

Senior Member

07-22-2012

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Hodor The Oaf

Member

07-22-2012

bump. riot pls.


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VVL Ebah

Senior Member

07-22-2012

I play a bit of Trundle top to counter sometimes, like sion or darius. It doesn't take 2k elo to see the huge disadvantage he has against champs he counters, as well as decreasing jungle speed (because that's obviously his main use). It just isn't up to par with the other skills that have the same proc. His W seems fine to me. The E - my favorite skill in the game! - really needs to be looked at. If the diameter of the pillar, or the slow, isn't increased, then at least increase cast range. It just isn't helpful enough, imo.

Also, Tuxedo Trundle smashing people over the head with a bottle of wine would make my day <3


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The Cpt America

Senior Member

07-22-2012

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Udajit

Senior Member

07-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cpt America View Post
Thank you for your post concerning these points.

However, i will merely (and maybe even seen like a big jerk move on my part) ask you two simple questions:

1) You say in your post that his cast animations are not that long. However, as somebody else has previously said this to me (And i am still waiting), name ONE character that has longer cast animations than this guy?

2) You use jax as an example. However, Jax's "Empower" is used with his NEXT auto attack, and however is does reset the AA timer, it only empowers the NEXT auto attack. This is not what trundle's Q does. It does not "BUFF" his next attack, and like i said many times before this, it is an actual ability such as Irelia's Q dash and therefore should reset this cool down timer. Am i wrong to say this?

Edit: Question 3) You say contaminate has no cast animation. This is not opinion. This is a fact. If you go into a custom game right now, go auto attack something and cast contaminate. Trundle leaps into the air for a hefty amount of time, and that is unacceptable. While he does gain a steroid, his overall damage still decreases due to this downtime in AA. I do not understand how you can say this is not a problem?
Regarding number one, I'll need some time to think.

edit3:First one I've realized: Volibear's Rolling thunder. It functions very similarly to Trundle's Rabid bite where it gives a unique animation, attack timer reset and an additional effect to an auto attack. It's roughly .7~ seconds, meaning it's .3 seconds longer of an animation.

Number two, however, yes. You're wrong, because you're making wrong comparisons. Enhanced auto attacks are abilities which causes the champions next auto attack to have different behavior than normal, such as Nasus' Siphoning Strike, Jax's Empower, Trundle's Rabid Bite and Poppy's Devastating Blow, meaning that these abilities are performed as an auto attack would be. Attack maneuvers, such as Irelia's Bladesurge, are not auto attacks or enhanced auto attacks. Going back to Rabid bite, the active swing of Rabid Bite, however, is not "empowered" with bonus attack damage because it instead causes the buff/debuff to last eight seconds following it. However, it does reset the attack swing animation exactly like Empower, Siphoning Strike and Devastating blow. Irelia's Bladesurge is treated as an ability maneuver that causes damage whereas Rabid Bite is an auto attack given a secondary action and alternative animation which causes movement.

Regarding three, the jump animation which you're speaking of has a duration of .5 seconds, which is slightly less than the time it takes a Cho'gath rupture to surge. However, when Trundle is actively attacking a target within range and one uses Rabid Bite, it will prematurely cancel the cast animation of Contaminate because Contaminate has an immediate cast time. Mechanical skill should solve the latency issue affecting your DPS. In fact, if you were too, considering that Rabid Bite resets the swing timer, the new auto attack will take the immediate travel benefit of Trundle's new attack speed granted by Contaminate.

And to be honest? That's kind of powerful - he should have an animation which is static OR a casting time attached to match the animation, considering once again, it's the largest and most powerful steroid inducing AoE in the game.

If you take a stop watch and actually time his Rabid bite attack animation, it's .48~ seconds from the moment of cast. It goes to .62~ if you're not chasing your target and instead locked in position for his character icon to reset posture.

edit: Also, it might help if you've invested more than twelve games into a champion you pick up at 2300 elo. I'm beginning to think from the requests you've made in this thread that you simply don't understand Trundle as much as you do, say, Rumble. I'm genuinely sorry for speaking out of turn if the data I can view is out of context and you have 200+ games outside of ranked with Trundle, though.

edit2: Again, for those reading through, be sure to check my first post - I agree with Cpt that Trundle needs attention, but not in the areas he's discussing. And if we're going to voice an opinion regarding how to improve Trundle's viability to Riot as a community, we should be addressing real issues.

Quote:
Edit 2: Question 4) Sorry to point out another thing, but what you say also about the reason trundle is not played in competitive play right now is because people realize how to kite him and how to counter his kit well. Well, the entirety of my post was only about QoL buffs. This is what is stopping him from being competitive. This META is about Burst, get in and get out or get it done fast. When you spend 1-2 seconds every team fight doing nothing but cast animation, that is what you are doing. You are doing nothing. Imagine using an ability that has karthus's ult channel time, however at the end of the channel no damage was dealt.
edit4 Okay, so I'm going to dissect what you just said as clearly as I can so you understand precisely what you've just written. "You(Udajit) stated accurate, realistic reasons about why Trundle isn't viable in competitive play. My(Cpt) post is about QoL buffs. QoL buffs keep him from being viable." Pause. The QoL buffs which you're suggesting will, even if they were accurate assessments of time and effective DPS loss (which I argue they're not) somehow suddenly prevent high-elo, competitive players from kiting him and countering his kit? They don't. They don't improve that at all - even if his cast animation worked like Hecarim's, which are incredibly short, castable during movement and nearly instantaneous - he'd still be counter-able because his kit is innately "King of The Hill" playstyle." Unpause. "The meta is about burst DPS, quick fighting, or hit&run tactics. His animations keep him from doing these! Unrelated sentence making a moot comparison." Now, any one of us here who even begins to understand Trundle knows full well that his entire kit, from Decompose to Agony, has absolutely nothing to do with short fights. Trundle is a slugger. Hell, it's one of his skins - "Lil' Slugger Trundle" He's going to fight you, fight you dirty, fight you and keep fighting you and laugh when you try to burst him and win when you're both low because he's a troll. But, somehow, QoL changes are going to completely upheave the entire style of play he's designed for, a style of play completely at odds with the current meta? Honestly?

No. We either accept and love Trundle for how he is or we face the fact he needs at least buffs and at the most a rework. I'm in favor of the former. The meta will change. Let's just trundle along. ssotp.


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The Cpt America

Senior Member

07-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Udajit View Post
Regarding number one, I'll need some time to think.

edit3:First one I've realized: Volibear's Rolling thunder. It functions very similarly to Trundle's Rabid bite where it gives a unique animation, attack timer reset and an additional effect to an auto attack. It's roughly .7~ seconds, meaning it's .3 seconds longer of an animation.

Number two, however, yes. You're wrong, because you're making wrong comparisons. Enhanced auto attacks are abilities which causes the champions next auto attack to have different behavior than normal, such as Nasus' Siphoning Strike, Jax's Empower, Trundle's Rabid Bite and Poppy's Devastating Blow, meaning that these abilities are performed as an auto attack would be. Attack maneuvers, such as Irelia's Bladesurge, are not auto attacks or enhanced auto attacks. Going back to Rabid bite, the active swing of Rabid Bite, however, is not "empowered" with bonus attack damage because it instead causes the buff/debuff to last eight seconds following it. However, it does reset the attack swing animation exactly like Empower, Siphoning Strike and Devastating blow. Irelia's Bladesurge is treated as an ability maneuver that causes damage whereas Rabid Bite is an auto attack given a secondary action and alternative animation which causes movement.

Regarding three, the jump animation which you're speaking of has a duration of .5 seconds, which is slightly less than the time it takes a Cho'gath rupture to surge. However, when Trundle is actively attacking a target within range and one uses Rabid Bite, it will prematurely cancel the cast animation of Contaminate because Contaminate has an immediate cast time. Mechanical skill should solve the latency issue affecting your DPS. In fact, if you were too, considering that Rabid Bite resets the swing timer, the new auto attack will take the immediate travel benefit of Trundle's new attack speed granted by Contaminate.

And to be honest? That's kind of powerful - he should have an animation which is static OR a casting time attached to match the animation, considering once again, it's the largest and most powerful steroid inducing AoE in the game.

If you take a stop watch and actually time his Rabid bite attack animation, it's .48~ seconds from the moment of cast. It goes to .62~ if you're not chasing your target and instead locked in position for his character icon to reset posture.

edit: Also, it might help if you've invested more than twelve games into a champion you pick up at 2300 elo. I'm beginning to think from the requests you've made in this thread that you simply don't understand Trundle as much as you do, say, Rumble. I'm genuinely sorry for speaking out of turn if the data I can view is out of context and you have 200+ games outside of ranked with Trundle, though.

edit2: Again, for those reading through, be sure to check my first post - I agree with Cpt that Trundle needs attention, but not in the areas he's discussing. And if we're going to voice an opinion regarding how to improve Trundle's viability to Riot as a community, we should be addressing real issues.



edit4 Okay, so I'm going to dissect what you just said as clearly as I can so you understand precisely what you've just written. "You(Udajit) stated accurate, realistic reasons about why Trundle isn't viable in competitive play. My(Cpt) post is about QoL buffs. QoL buffs keep him from being viable." Pause. The QoL buffs which you're suggesting will, even if they were accurate assessments of time and effective DPS loss (which I argue they're not) somehow suddenly prevent high-elo, competitive players from kiting him and countering his kit? They don't. They don't improve that at all - even if his cast animation worked like Hecarim's, which are incredibly short, castable during movement and nearly instantaneous - he'd still be counter-able because his kit is innately "King of The Hill" playstyle." Unpause. "The meta is about burst DPS, quick fighting, or hit&run tactics. His animations keep him from doing these! Unrelated sentence making a moot comparison." Now, any one of us here who even begins to understand Trundle knows full well that his entire kit, from Decompose to Agony, has absolutely nothing to do with short fights. Trundle is a slugger. Hell, it's one of his skins - "Lil' Slugger Trundle" He's going to fight you, fight you dirty, fight you and keep fighting you and laugh when you try to burst him and win when you're both low because he's a troll. But, somehow, QoL changes are going to completely upheave the entire style of play he's designed for, a style of play completely at odds with the current meta? Honestly?

No. We either accept and love Trundle for how he is or we face the fact he needs at least buffs and at the most a rework. I'm in favor of the former. The meta will change. Let's just trundle along. ssotp.
-_- I can't argue you with you if your mind isn't open to change. Honestly, you have given me none of the answers i was looking for. For instance, Volibears "Rolling Thunder" Is like Jax's Q, on next auto attack, not a whole separate ability.

Trying to point out invalid accusations, such at this is (my only account) that i have played trundle on is totally wrong. If you refuse to stick to the facts, please exit the thread. When you say things such as "W" cast is instant, please read what i put. How can you deny trundle jumps into the air for an absurd amount of time?

Please go play trundle into a game without trying to make sarcastic, witty remarks in attempt to prove something factual false.


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The Cpt America

Senior Member

07-22-2012

bamp


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The Cpt America

Senior Member

07-22-2012

bump;