@Riot: Trundle

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SeaOfMadness

Senior Member

07-22-2012

bumpity bump!


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Udajit

Senior Member

07-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cpt America View Post

Q - Almost everybody has an "activate then attack again" ability, such as Irelia's Q ability. She dashes then automatically attacks again, but trundle's Q animation is so long and he doesn't automatically attack again which really decreases his damage.
(To clarify on this: Most people, such as using another example (Tristana), have the ability to auto attack, use an ability in which the character re-auto attacks directly after. Riot buffed many champion so that they could do this awhile back. Tristana's ability is her E, in which she auto attacks, uses this ability and automatically autos right afterwards).
Untrue. Rabid Bite resets the attack timer and is followed by an auto attack. I've never experienced an instance where he ceased to attack or where it wasn't followed up by one. Infact, this ability is a little too powerful when used in conjuncture with Contaminate, because it acts as a minor gap closer, which I believe is what you're misconstruing as the "second of inactivity."

His cast animations really aren't that long, besides maybe Pillar of Filth, which is justifiable, as it's a powerful slow/AOE passage denial. The casting time is fast, the animation is half a second long. That's justifiable.

Contaminate has no cast time. And if you honestly believe that creating the largest, most powerful steroid-inducing AoE in the game deserves a shorter animation, (which, I've timed and checked - it's .4 seconds) you're crazy.

You lose because Trundle is an out-classed champion. Gap closers/mobility abilities are increasingly prevalent in League, you play him in the wrong compositions because it's solo queue (whether 1400 or 2400~.) High elo players also understand just how powerful Trundle is as a duelist because unlike low-level players (who lack the vast amount of technical knowledge required to climb the ladder) they can calculate the power of a 40+/20- AD ratio, a 15% increase in tenacity and so on. They'll maneuver away from Trundle and not fight him, unlike low-knowledge players who can't calculate that.


He's a fun champion, he fulfills a role, but he's not high-elo or professionally viable because the pool of champions which are has drastically grown since his release. His CC is too soft to be a successful jungler and while Decompose and Contaminate make his jungle clear healthy, it's not the fastest. It's fast, mind you, but still - AoE DPS is always going to outclass him. So, with less farm, less opportunity to lead successful ganks (particularly against warding, high-awareness, high-elo players) and an increasing pool of junglers who aren't hindered by his most powerful ability to control blue/red/dragon/baron - Pillar of Filth, Trundle's grown to appear weak. However, Trundle still has one of the most tremendous team fight presences in the game - you can peel, smash and neuter the bruiser that leaps onto your carry. You can completely disable the front line. You can separate entire teams in the right circumstances. I agree with you, Capt, that Trundle needs at least QoL changes to be competitive, but what you're suggesting, however, is not what he needs.

Best of luck. I'll be editing this as I read through the rest of the thread.
edit1:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cpt America View Post
No you can't, you attack once, you hit q then then it does not auto attack right after again
Again, untrue, Capt. Rabid Bite acts as an enhanced auto attack like Jax's Empower. It has it's own short cast animation which functions as a small distance closer and resets the attack timer, meaning you do enjoy an additional, free auto attack following it. The fact it operates as a slight movement skill makes it an even stronger ability than most other enhanced autos because it's useful for when being kited when combined with Contaminate prior to the purchasing of Phage/Frozen Mallet.
If you're not maneuvering him to follow and attack, then you're not playing well mechanically. If you were, then the fact the animation is inclined to reset his posture isn't a factor.

edit2: Downvoting has started.


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INCIESSE

Senior Member

07-22-2012

bump


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godbuu

Senior Member

07-22-2012

Trundle would probably be twice as viable if he had a stun. Make pillar knock people up or something.


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The Cpt America

Senior Member

07-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Udajit View Post
Untrue. Rabid Bite resets the attack timer and is followed by an auto attack. I've never experienced an instance where he ceased to attack or where it wasn't followed up by one. Infact, this ability is a little too powerful when used in conjuncture with Contaminate, because it acts as a minor gap closer, which I believe is what you're misconstruing as the "second of inactivity."

His cast animations really aren't that long, besides maybe Pillar of Filth, which is justifiable, as it's a powerful slow/AOE passage denial. The casting time is fast, the animation is half a second long. That's justifiable.

Contaminate has no cast time. And if you honestly believe that creating the largest, most powerful steroid-inducing AoE in the game deserves a shorter animation, (which, I've timed and checked - it's .4 seconds) you're crazy.

You lose because Trundle is an out-classed champion. Gap closers/mobility abilities are increasingly prevalent in League, you play him in the wrong compositions because it's solo queue (whether 1400 or 2400~.) High elo players also understand just how powerful Trundle is as a duelist because unlike low-level players (who lack the vast amount of technical knowledge required to climb the ladder) they can calculate the power of a 40+/20- AD ratio, a 15% increase in tenacity and so on. They'll maneuver away from Trundle and not fight him, unlike low-knowledge players who can't calculate that.


He's a fun champion, he fulfills a role, but he's not high-elo or professionally viable because the pool of champions which are has drastically grown since his release. His CC is too soft to be a successful jungler and while Decompose and Contaminate make his jungle clear healthy, it's not the fastest. It's fast, mind you, but still - AoE DPS is always going to outclass him. So, with less farm, less opportunity to lead successful ganks (particularly against warding, high-awareness, high-elo players) and an increasing pool of junglers who aren't hindered by his most powerful ability to control blue/red/dragon/baron - Pillar of Filth, Trundle's grown to appear weak. However, Trundle still has one of the most tremendous team fight presences in the game - you can peel, smash and neuter the bruiser that leaps onto your carry. You can completely disable the front line. You can separate entire teams in the right circumstances. I agree with you, Capt, that Trundle needs at least QoL changes to be competitive, but what you're suggesting, however, is not what he needs.

Best of luck. I'll be editing this as I read through the rest of the thread.



Again, untrue, Capt. Rabid Bite acts as an enhanced auto attack like Jax's Empower. It has it's own short cast animation which functions as a small distance closer and resets the attack timer, meaning you do enjoy an additional, free auto attack following it. The fact it operates as a slight movement skill makes it an even stronger ability than most other enhanced autos because it's useful for when being kited when combined with Contaminate prior to the purchasing of Phage/Frozen Mallet.
If you're not maneuvering him to follow and attack, then you're not playing well mechanically. If you were, then the fact the animation is inclined to reset his posture isn't a factor.
Thank you for your post concerning these points.

However, i will merely (and maybe even seen like a big jerk move on my part) ask you two simple questions:

1) You say in your post that his cast animations are not that long. However, as somebody else has previously said this to me (And i am still waiting), name ONE character that has longer cast animations than this guy?

2) You use jax as an example. However, Jax's "Empower" is used with his NEXT auto attack, and however is does reset the AA timer, it only empowers the NEXT auto attack. This is not what trundle's Q does. It does not "BUFF" his next attack, and like i said many times before this, it is an actual ability such as Irelia's Q dash and therefore should reset this cool down timer. Am i wrong to say this?

Edit: Question 3) You say contaminate has no cast animation. This is not opinion. This is a fact. If you go into a custom game right now, go auto attack something and cast contaminate. Trundle leaps into the air for a hefty amount of time, and that is unacceptable. While he does gain a steroid, his overall damage still decreases due to this downtime in AA. I do not understand how you can say this is not a problem?

Edit 2: Question 4) Sorry to point out another thing, but what you say also about the reason trundle is not played in competitive play right now is because people realize how to kite him and how to counter his kit well. Well, the entirety of my post was only about QoL buffs. This is what is stopping him from being competitive. This META is about Burst, get in and get out or get it done fast. When you spend 1-2 seconds every team fight doing nothing but cast animation, that is what you are doing. You are doing nothing. Imagine using an ability that has karthus's ult channel time, however at the end of the channel no damage was dealt.


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The Cpt America

Senior Member

07-22-2012

bump


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AlphaPhoenix

Senior Member

07-22-2012

I agree. Trundle needs small QoL animation buffs. Riot pls.


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The Cpt America

Senior Member

07-22-2012

bamp


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The Cpt America

Senior Member

07-22-2012

bump


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Vuther

Senior Member

07-22-2012

I feel like they just need the animation for Q to scale with attack speed so he can chase and use it. That's pretty much it, W's casting animation is cancelable with Q so it doesn't really bother me.