Prove Kog'Maw and/or Garen are OP

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Nabonidus

Senior Member

09-04-2010

Kog'maw has no escapes except a directional skillshot that leaves a trail. Avoid the trail=no slow.

When he has a built in flash, blood pool, or Courage-esque ability, THEN people have the right to *****. As of right now, he's a strong ranged DPS champ who's hard countered by mobility/assassin heroes.


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Shreder

Senior Member

09-04-2010

I play Vlad a lot. The biggest problem with most noob Vlad's is they spam their pool the very second they are in danger of taking even 1 point of damage. The problem with Garen is, if you pool when he charges at you, he just stands on you and then silences you when you come out. If you wait to pool, he silences you when you are low so you can't. So saying Pool is a viable strategy against a good Garen is naive.

I will say that if Kat and Urgot get a ward they can pretty easily counter Garen, but by the time they are to the point where they can go back and get the ward it is already too late into the game to be useful. So basically if Garen is on the other team you MUST buy a ward if you are going into the side lane. Isn't it kind of ridiculous that you MUST buy an item if you want to even have a chance of preventing a snowball in the first 5 minutes of the game?


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Stormsoul

Senior Member

09-04-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreder View Post

Isn't it kind of ridiculous that you MUST buy an item if you want to even have a chance of preventing a snowball in the first 5 minutes of the game?
it might be if the item in question wasnt so cheap you can buy it after killing 3 creeps.


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SaltyCrakr

Senior Member

09-04-2010

Vlad can tower dive at level 3, get a kill / impressive damage amount, and leave with no "lost" health, (Other than casting costs) then proceed to steal life from minions till he's back to 100%.

People just don't know how to use Urgot yet. Most people seem to think he's a tank. NO. Just because he has a shield and initiation doesn't make him a tank. I often go 3/1 KD with Urgot, because squishies underestimate the range he can dish out without being vulnerable. He's great when pushing enemies back, because he can lock on, then slow them more and more with every shot., often giving your team a jump on one guy, while the rest run and hide.Saying Urgot is useless means you've never seen one who actually knows what his shield does.

Garen can't touch any Ez who knows what he's doing. Period.

And Kat, well, Kat will throw a dagger (often causing the garen to pull back, because thats what people do) Then Kat can teleport to him, get a stab off, then pull away before garen knows what hit him.

Garen is a strong champ, but that's only because players underestimate what he can do. Most people would say "Hey, garen is at half life in the bushes, better harass him" Then garen silences and spins while you run away in the fetal position...


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Computerz

Senior Member

09-04-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreder View Post
They are called bushes.

Meh, the jury is still out on Urgot. Also, silence.

You can't pool while silenced.

Kat can't throw daggers at things she can't see. Also, silence.

1 exhaust + spin is enough to either kill you or guarantee you can't continue fighting without a trip to the fountain/burning pots, and then he has all the advantage over you he needs for the laning phase.
If Garen's in the bushes, he's not last hitting. And if Garen's in the bushes, that means I'm not going to hang out right next to the bushes. In fact, if I have a skillshot I'll continually harass Garen from outside of it.

A few things, you need to actually hit a target with a melee attack in order to silence them you know. Many characters can throw some sort of disable on Garen or use an escape before he gets into range. If you don't have one, then surely your lanemate has one. If you're in a solo lane, then what the hell are you doing in a sololane with no escape and no disable? Before being silenced, Kat can Shunpo, Vlad can QEW, Ez can QE.

And who just said Vlad's early game is bad? He's easily one of the best laners in the game.


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MormonChinMormon

Senior Member

09-04-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by WarlordLucifer View Post
that's my point, even bloodrazor isn't OP on him, it's just good

have you ever seen the devastation a shaco with wit's end, divine blade, bloodrazor and malady can do when he summon his clone and both attack with insane attackspeed trigering all those effects 2x more?

besides shaco is not as squishy as kog and has a MUCH better escape mechanism

tryndamere with any generic AD build would laugh at 11 seconds to kill a tank endgame, plus he is imortal, tough, heals himself and has a "jump" escape mechanism, also can slow for most of the fight while decreasing everyone's AD

so would master yi, which cannot be slowed and moves like a lightning

I could go on but you get the point.
i assume you haven't heard of ranged.


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Brain Clots

Senior Member

09-04-2010

Garen's early game is insane, but does garbage endgame. Nerf Judgment's base damage and make it scale better. Done and done.


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Phutch

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Senior Member

09-04-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by WarlordLucifer View Post
that's my point, even bloodrazor isn't OP on him, it's just good

have you ever seen the devastation a shaco with wit's end, divine blade, bloodrazor and malady can do when he summon his clone and both attack with insane attackspeed trigering all those effects 2x more?

besides shaco is not as squishy as kog and has a MUCH better escape mechanism

tryndamere with any generic AD build would laugh at 11 seconds to kill a tank endgame, plus he is imortal, tough, heals himself and has a "jump" escape mechanism, also can slow for most of the fight while decreasing everyone's AD

so would master yi, which cannot be slowed and moves like a lightning

I could go on but you get the point.
We won a 3 on 5 with Kog Maw carrying and my Revive Pantheon backdooring towers. Kog maw killed amumu and their entire team, 1 pentakill had 35 kills and 3 deaths endgame.

Next game: My same friend, 26-2-12 with kog maw while I tanked this one.

The numbers don't lie!


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Phutch

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

09-04-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyCrakr View Post
Vlad can tower dive at level 3, get a kill / impressive damage amount, and leave with no "lost" health, (Other than casting costs) then proceed to steal life from minions till he's back to 100%.

People just don't know how to use Urgot yet. Most people seem to think he's a tank. NO. Just because he has a shield and initiation doesn't make him a tank. I often go 3/1 KD with Urgot, because squishies underestimate the range he can dish out without being vulnerable. He's great when pushing enemies back, because he can lock on, then slow them more and more with every shot., often giving your team a jump on one guy, while the rest run and hide.Saying Urgot is useless means you've never seen one who actually knows what his shield does.

Garen can't touch any Ez who knows what he's doing. Period.

And Kat, well, Kat will throw a dagger (often causing the garen to pull back, because thats what people do) Then Kat can teleport to him, get a stab off, then pull away before garen knows what hit him.

Garen is a strong champ, but that's only because players underestimate what he can do. Most people would say "Hey, garen is at half life in the bushes, better harass him" Then garen silences and spins while you run away in the fetal position...
Except you're kinda wrong. Urgot is indeed a tank as that's one of the only roles he can fill effectively. Yes he can carry early game hard, but after the DPS stops, you gotta tank/assassin. Get those squishies into your team and punish them for being long-range.


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WarlordLucifer

Senior Member

09-04-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreder View Post
I play Vlad a lot. The biggest problem with most noob Vlad's is they spam their pool the very second they are in danger of taking even 1 point of damage. The problem with Garen is, if you pool when he charges at you, he just stands on you and then silences you when you come out. If you wait to pool, he silences you when you are low so you can't. So saying Pool is a viable strategy against a good Garen is naive.

I will say that if Kat and Urgot get a ward they can pretty easily counter Garen, but by the time they are to the point where they can go back and get the ward it is already too late into the game to be useful. So basically if Garen is on the other team you MUST buy a ward if you are going into the side lane. Isn't it kind of ridiculous that you MUST buy an item if you want to even have a chance of preventing a snowball in the first 5 minutes of the game?
my point exactly, pool should never be spammed, and how exactly is he going to silence you after you pool? its supposed to be used to get you back to safety, not just stand there, and we aren't talking about 1 damage, if you know what he can do, if you know he can and WILL kill you if you don't pool out at that moment, then you shouldn't have waited in the first place.

isn't it ridiculous that tanks need to get armor to counter AD, or MR to counter magic? point is, the counters are there, if you chose not to use them, it is your choice, nobody is forcing you to not do what you can to beat the **** out of him.

and all that is even assuming you are playing for some reason 1x1 against garen or 2x1, you have a teamate, you shouldn't be dying 100-0% HP just because he poked you once, but assuming that is the case, that he is He-Man and he can do that against everything and everyone easily, like I said, just DONT let him get into melee range, he doesn't have a teleport or a proper charge skill so doing this is not hard at all.

let me ask you something else, if you know the enemy team is full of CC, would you not build merc threads and maybe even BV even if those items are ****ing up with your build in order to counter them?
if you are an AD character, would you keep trying to attack Jax alone?
if you have 600 HP would you keep trying to melee Cho'Gat?
if your pool is on CD would you charge at the enemy's 2-5 man team if you aren't fed as vlad?
etc...

Then WHY do people insisnt in doing the SAME mistakes, over and over and over and over and over and over again, even in the very same match, knowing exactly what garen's strenghts and weaknesses are and feel they have the right to complain?!


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