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If you believe turtling is an issue, you're doing it wrong.

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Swiftcarp

Senior Member

07-23-2012

Quote:
Zionyx:
I think that if destroying an inhibitor is counter-productive, the map design has flaws.


This. This. 1000 times this.


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Eryn

Senior Member

07-23-2012

Quote:
Goggris:
Deja vu! I made this exact argument to E1C last night.

Sorry E1C, 2v1, we win.


I dunno man, Sam and 408 seem to think that not only is turtling not an issue, but it does not exist. I'll do some maths on the amount of gold / xp recieved from a full jungle clear (including dragon) and compare it to the amount of gold / xp recieved via a pushed inhibitor.

Either way 3v2, but no one wins :P


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IS148a223fc86b1c4fb2104

Senior Member

07-24-2012

Quote:
E1C:
I dunno man, Sam and 408 seem to think that not only is turtling not an issue, but it does not exist. I'll do some maths on the amount of gold / xp recieved from a full jungle clear (including dragon) and compare it to the amount of gold / xp recieved via a pushed inhibitor.

Either way 3v2, but no one wins :P


The turtling issue isn't only about gold & xp, it is also influenced by the pick.
It's not that funny when the turtling team has a Jax or an Irelia, because all you want is to end it fast.


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Goggris

Senior Member

07-24-2012

Quote:
E1C:
I dunno man, Sam and 408 seem to think that not only is turtling not an issue, but it does not exist. I'll do some maths on the amount of gold / xp recieved from a full jungle clear (including dragon) and compare it to the amount of gold / xp recieved via a pushed inhibitor.

Either way 3v2, but no one wins :P


I will say turtling is more of an issue when you have a 3 melee comp. As long as you have *some* ranged harass OR strong burst you can mitigate the effects of the turtling stalemate.

Basically you want to make small progress as you hit that back and forth wall, or be able to get a kill without them getting a chance to go back to fountain to heal.


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Sam

Senior Member

07-24-2012

Quote:
E1C:
I dunno man, Sam and 408 seem to think that not only is turtling not an issue, but it does not exist. I'll do some maths on the amount of gold / xp recieved from a full jungle clear (including dragon) and compare it to the amount of gold / xp recieved via a pushed inhibitor.

Either way 3v2, but no one wins :P


Didn't say it doesn't exist, just it's a dumb concept because it can easily be countered or not happen at all. Just out cs your lanes, clear jungle, get kills, and take dragons/buffs. Than ace them and push it to their main tower. :P Really not that hard haha


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planeswalker420

Junior Member

07-25-2012

Yeah so the other day i was playing a game with my not so skilled but very good friends and while we were behind on kills we were constantly ahead on turrets and the whole enemy team got guardian angel and hid in base and drew the game out, it was an 80 minute game, they'd just push then wait, most obnoxious **** ever, couldn't kill any of them because malph would ult back in the fountain, noc would spell shield and run to the fountain, all while stepping on teemo shrooms, bought a thousand oracles, tried to bd several times but they were always there. Swear to god riot. Put the nexus 3 feet to the left and we're good.


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Eryn

Senior Member

07-25-2012

Quote:
planeswalker420:
Yeah so the other day i was playing a game with my not so skilled but very good friends and while we were behind on kills we were constantly ahead on turrets and the whole enemy team got guardian angel and hid in base and drew the game out, it was an 80 minute game, they'd just push then wait, most obnoxious **** ever, couldn't kill any of them because malph would ult back in the fountain, noc would spell shield and run to the fountain, all while stepping on teemo shrooms, bought a thousand oracles, tried to bd several times but they were always there. Swear to god riot. Put the nexus 3 feet to the left and we're good.


Just dive the tower. Ignore their team and just dps the tower down. With 3 people with decent attack damge hitting it, it'll drop in a few seconds. Even if all of you die it's worth it.


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Desocupado

Senior Member

10-23-2012

One of the biggest mistakes people do while in an advantage is pushing for no reason, if they can't tower dive kill.


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DemolitionDean

Senior Member

10-23-2012

This thread has gone a little off topic but I wan to keep talking about turtling. (I think E1C is still keeping up with the thread.)

While I respect your opinion, and believe that turtling is a viable strategy in the old twisted treeline. I don't think this was ever intended. The way I see it, there's no reason your team should lose an advantage or give the other team some kind of advantage by taking an objective. We've been dealing with turtling for so long that now it is an expected part of 3 vs 3 but I don't believe that that was ever intended, the true spirit of twisted treeline is about lots of skirmish type teamfights and a fast game, and the turtling "strategy" ruins that spirit completely.
Just because it was a legit strategy in the past doesn't mean it isn't un-fun or bad for the game. I'll admit it, I've been that guy that farmed in spawn for an extra 30 min and came back to win the game, but I can't say that it was fun for anyone on either side.
You can talk all you want about turtling being easy to counter, but in the end, when I get superminions I want them to PUSH THE NEXUS. Maybe they should just take the inhibitors out, they didn't do anything in the old twisted treeline anyways right?


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blindasleep

Senior Member

10-23-2012

Quote:
ChineseEU:
That's not the opinion of top elo players. As i said previously, if the botlane in SR is always a duo, it's for this reason (and for drake control but that's not the point).
You simply can't have a 1v2 lane against support+AD, they just have to last hit to the max (by that I mean that they last hit at the very moment the minions projectiles will hit, which causes the lane to nearly freeze in the middle) while the support denies you from the xp.

Kennen Morg or whatever has sustain and range seem cool to handle a 1v2 but they just end getting even more denied than a classic bruiser since they can't reach minions and are very weak against AD harass, while something like Riven might at least have a chance if jungler comes.

Yorick is totally useless in a 1v2 situation because he has to take a whole lot of harass (too much for him obv) and every ghoul he summons is a risk of pushing the lane, which means he can just base and afk. Morde is also one of the weakest champ to put in a 1v2 situation, because without a creepwave he is an absolute freekill in earlygame (+ he's not a good champ in a gank situation, so he won't be able to work so well with jungler).

If you're not used to deny and can't imagine what I say by reading me, just ask a high level duo from SR to play a 2v1 vs any laner you want (high level too ofc), you'll see the result. It used to be counterbalanced by the jungler's presence but since the jungle rework, the jungler has too much difficulty to keep up with the duolane.

E1C's opinion may be correct because he says that the jungler can counterbalance this deny, which may be true (opinions), but saying one player can overcome a 1v2 is just not possible sorry.



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