If you believe turtling is an issue, you're doing it wrong.

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Spoogeanator

Member

07-12-2012

Please do this, I consider myself a student of the treeline (only 1558 rating), and I would love to watch these 2 metas square off.


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IS148a223fc86b1c4fb2104

Senior Member

07-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorthix View Post
The other ones I didn't check cause I don't have a EU account and on lolking they have no ranked 3s. But Necaderp has 3 Ranked threes on his history, 2 with jungle Lee Sin and 1 with Alistar.
I'm sorry Necarderp is one of the list that I know the less, i must have met him once or maybe twice but as you can see from the w/l ratio of these teams, the ladder is quite random and even if I had a 1600+ team I couldn't "force" the matchmaking to find them. The place where I'd have the highest chance to meet him would ironically be in normal games.. But he doesnt do many normals.

The 2 rankeds you are talking about are on a smurf team with 2-0 so imo it's more "for fun" than anything else. On his main team with 43-0 all the games I checked were support +AD (mainly Vayne).

They may probably still play some jungle, and I still do too. In this map teamplay > all so I guess a very good team could beat AD+Supp no matter what. For example #1 plays with a split farm top and without smite on any of their champ, and they still manage to top the ladder.
What I wanted to show is that the "general" metagame went toward duotop being more efficient.

E1C: Don't be so sure of your win , I think both sides could be surprised actually. But the big issue is: who plays with 200 ping ?


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Eryn

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Senior Member

07-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChineseEU View Post
I'm sorry Necarderp is one of the list that I know the less, i must have met him once or maybe twice but as you can see from the w/l ratio of these teams, the ladder is quite random and even if I had a 1600+ team I couldn't "force" the matchmaking to find them. The place where I'd have the highest chance to meet him would ironically be in normal games.. But he doesnt do many normals.

The 2 rankeds you are talking about are on a smurf team with 2-0 so imo it's more "for fun" than anything else. On his main team with 43-0 all the games I checked were support +AD (mainly Vayne).

They may probably still play some jungle, and I still do too. In this map teamplay > all so I guess a very good team could beat AD+Supp no matter what. For example #1 plays with a split farm top and without smite on any of their champ, and they still manage to top the ladder.
What I wanted to show is that the "general" metagame went toward duotop being more efficient.

E1C: Don't be so sure of your win , I think both sides could be surprised actually. But the big issue is: who plays with 200 ping ?
I always have 200+ ping but I won't be playing :P


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Lorthix

Senior Member

07-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChineseEU View Post
I'm sorry Necarderp is one of the list that I know the less, i must have met him once or maybe twice but as you can see from the w/l ratio of these teams, the ladder is quite random and even if I had a 1600+ team I couldn't "force" the matchmaking to find them. The place where I'd have the highest chance to meet him would ironically be in normal games.. But he doesnt do many normals.

The 2 rankeds you are talking about are on a smurf team with 2-0 so imo it's more "for fun" than anything else. On his main team with 43-0 all the games I checked were support +AD (mainly Vayne).

They may probably still play some jungle, and I still do too. In this map teamplay > all so I guess a very good team could beat AD+Supp no matter what. For example #1 plays with a split farm top and without smite on any of their champ, and they still manage to top the ladder.
What I wanted to show is that the "general" metagame went toward duotop being more efficient.

E1C: Don't be so sure of your win , I think both sides could be surprised actually. But the big issue is: who plays with 200 ping ?
I understand what you were wanting to show, and it is actually a very interesting topic to discuss. That tournament would definitely be a cool thing to see and might get more people interested in TT if it were able to be set up somehow.


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Shrouded Soul

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Member

07-20-2012

Udyr thinks "turtling" is a great strategy!


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PrometheanRage

Senior Member

07-21-2012

Quote:
I think I might just host a tournament. I'll invite the top 10 teams from both EU and NA.

1st place: $150 (each)
2nd place: $75 (each)
3rd place: $30 (each)

I'll record every game with LoL recorder and host it on youtube ^.^
I would so watch this. Sounds like tons of fun!


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Blue Lambency

Member

07-21-2012

Yo guys, just kill stuff.


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Koldheartedjsp

Senior Member

07-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChineseEU View Post
Except the support + AD actually goes and ruins top for obvious reasons... And as good as Yorick or Morg sustain are, they still can't run a good solo vs2 situation against agressive support + AD (because ofc thats not Soraka Ashe). You're platinum so you must be aware that if in 5v5 we never see a solobot (or it fails miserably like HSGG's Cho or that Irelia guy last year) there is a reason.
While the carry gets full farm and controls most of the jungle with his supp, the enemy top is underfarmed, the jungle is underfarmed (especially when I look at your tier list with Mundo and Riven jungle tier1..). The only "weakness" is the lack of farm from support, but as you probably know this isn't a problem for Ali/Leona/Nunu etc.
Dominating top means winning game because you control the 90% of the map that goes with it. The map in totally centered on its top-half and that is why having 2 picks that can't fight ad+supp is a mistake. Also as I stated the extra xp for sololane is nearly nothing, do the test by yourself and you will have at best 1 level more than duolane, which is nothing in 3v3.

The jungler can't pressure the bottom at all. A simple ward at red prevents 90% of ganks, and if he decides to camp bot he'll just end up being even more underfarmed than the average jungler and lose top buffs or even drake.

I'm not just projecting, that is how the whole top 50 teams play in EU server, and the jungle meta is now quite outdated. It took a while to take place, but honestly we all knew something like that was going to happen the day we saw the jungle "rework" that killed 3v3 jungle.

AD carry+ supp + APbot; ADofftank + supp + AP bot; AD carry + supp + ADofftank bot (quite rare because of balance between AD&AP damage) are the 3 "metas" we can see.
don't be stupid. There are plenty of champs that can 2v1 the ad+supp lane and come out ahead. Yorick and morgana are def some of them. Kennen and morde can quite easily too. Plus champs with AOE will def put a hurt on them. Brand and his range could end up very dangerous for the team of 2 if they don't get a huge advantage (which would be very difficult).


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IS148a223fc86b1c4fb2104

Senior Member

07-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koldheartedjsp View Post
don't be stupid. There are plenty of champs that can 2v1 the ad+supp lane and come out ahead. Yorick and morgana are def some of them. Kennen and morde can quite easily too. Plus champs with AOE will def put a hurt on them. Brand and his range could end up very dangerous for the team of 2 if they don't get a huge advantage (which would be very difficult).
That's not the opinion of top elo players. As i said previously, if the botlane in SR is always a duo, it's for this reason (and for drake control but that's not the point).
You simply can't have a 1v2 lane against support+AD, they just have to last hit to the max (by that I mean that they last hit at the very moment the minions projectiles will hit, which causes the lane to nearly freeze in the middle) while the support denies you from the xp.

Kennen Morg or whatever has sustain and range seem cool to handle a 1v2 but they just end getting even more denied than a classic bruiser since they can't reach minions and are very weak against AD harass, while something like Riven might at least have a chance if jungler comes.

Yorick is totally useless in a 1v2 situation because he has to take a whole lot of harass (too much for him obv) and every ghoul he summons is a risk of pushing the lane, which means he can just base and afk. Morde is also one of the weakest champ to put in a 1v2 situation, because without a creepwave he is an absolute freekill in earlygame (+ he's not a good champ in a gank situation, so he won't be able to work so well with jungler).

If you're not used to deny and can't imagine what I say by reading me, just ask a high level duo from SR to play a 2v1 vs any laner you want (high level too ofc), you'll see the result. It used to be counterbalanced by the jungler's presence but since the jungle rework, the jungler has too much difficulty to keep up with the duolane.

E1C's opinion may be correct because he says that the jungler can counterbalance this deny, which may be true (opinions), but saying one player can overcome a 1v2 is just not possible sorry.


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ZO KidKaiser

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Senior Member

07-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVz View Post
explain smite to me, im curious of how much help that can be
really?!
you realize how weak that dragon in TT is?
smite is practically a free dragon if you can time it right.

and if you havent already witnessed it.
1 top 1 bot 1 jungler gives you the best result in abusing TwistedTreeline.