Jayce's background makes Viktor look like a hypocrite and a saturday morning villain.

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Ginga

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Senior Member

07-03-2012

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Originally Posted by RiotRunaan View Post
from anyone’s perspective but his own, destroying Viktor’s lab in its entirety might have been overzealous. Secondly, Jayce ignored the warnings of the Piltover government to strike against Viktor alone, which speaks to his recklessness and arrogance. His actions had the greater good in mind: Jayce truly does embody Piltover’s focus on the purity of science and progress, and Viktor stands directly in opposition to those values. Jayce may have gotten a little bit lucky this time, though. Viktor underestimated Piltover, and thus underestimated Jayce. Things might not turn out so well for the Defender of Tomorrow the next time the two cross paths.
So your point is...Jayce's bio is Jayce's opinion on himself?


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RiotRunaan

Associate Creative Designer

07-03-2012
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Originally Posted by Ginga View Post
So your point is...Jayce's bio is Jayce's opinion on himself?
It isn't Jayce's opinion of himself, it's just a story about his particular moment of glory. The point is that some of his actions in the story can be seen as flaws that may hinder him in his future endeavors, though. Jayce is a hero at heart, but he's going to run into challenges and struggle along his journey.


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Elementalos

Senior Member

07-03-2012

My problem here is that it just seems counter to who viktor is.

Viktor is obsessed with perfecting his techniques and proving that his way is the best. Stealing someone else's technology is essentially admitting defeat for himself, which doesn't seem right for him.

Viktor joined the league specifically to field test his equipment and perfect it. Given that, why would he run away from a fight with Jayce? Seems like a battle with another renowned inventor would be a perfect chance to test himself.

Maybe if Viktor stole the tech specifically to cause a confrontation with Jayce or something, it'd make more sense.

edit: Oh, and the way Viktor is apparently defeated so casually by Jayce's counter attack just looks bad.

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Originally Posted by Jonny Knoxville View Post
But WHYYYYYYYYYYYY why name Jayce the Defender of tomorrow ???????? thats just soo cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezey
That's the point.


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Gaeta

Senior Member

07-03-2012

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Originally Posted by Kyrrion View Post
So basically
Viktor = Dr. Horrible
Jayce = Captain Hammer
from Dr. Horrible's Sing-along Blog?
HORRIBLe VIKTOR WHERE


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Aspect of Doubt

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07-03-2012

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Originally Posted by RiotRunaan View Post
Hi everyone,

We’ve been keeping an eye on this thread today (and others about Jayce and Viktor), and now that we’ve had a chance to listen to you guys and contemplate your feedback, we wanted to jump in.

Let’s talk about Viktor and Jayce, as we envision them:

We’d like to evolve Viktor into a complex, tormented villain in the League of Legends story, but we also want him to remain the sympathetic – and possibly redeemable – character he’s established to be in his own lore. Tormented and obsessed with the superiority of machines, Viktor is on a slow descent into madness, and he seeks to push his “glorious evolution” – the transformation from man to machine – onto Runeterra at large. His confrontation with Piltover, a place he sees as weak (full of puny-minded scientists who could, after all, be “so much more”) was a step in this direction. The “acolytes” mentioned in Jayce’s bio were not random minions but in fact Zaunite humans Viktor has swayed to his cause (and augmented, of course, with “improvements”). Jayce stood against him, and such opposition is the first setback in Viktor’s plan – something he’ll have to overcome.

Unfortunately, within the storytelling constraints of a bio, we weren’t able to paint this nuanced picture of Viktor as we envision him.

Jayce’s bio is a story about Jayce. This is the way in which the humble inventor became a hero, but it’s also just the beginning of his journey. We wanted to hint at a lot of flaws he’s going to have to overcome: he’s brash, he has trouble with authority, and he’s more than a little arrogant. For example, from anyone’s perspective but his own, destroying Viktor’s lab in its entirety might have been overzealous. Secondly, Jayce ignored the warnings of the Piltover government to strike against Viktor alone, which speaks to his recklessness and arrogance. His actions had the greater good in mind: Jayce truly does embody Piltover’s focus on the purity of science and progress, and Viktor stands directly in opposition to those values. Jayce may have gotten a little bit lucky this time, though. Viktor underestimated Piltover, and thus underestimated Jayce. Things might not turn out so well for the Defender of Tomorrow the next time the two cross paths.

Overall, we want to set the stage for an epic struggle between our two paragons of science in Piltover and Zaun. After listening to your feedback today, we don’t think we quite accomplished that with Jayce’s bio. With that in mind, the Creative team is going to take a look at Jayce’s bio over the coming days and evaluate ways to improve it.

You might think a thread like this would be hard for us to read – but it’s actually incredibly rewarding to hear how passionate you all are about our characters and lore. Thanks for your enthusiastic feedback!
The problem I've come to have with the lore is how horribly Viktor lost, regardless of the relevance to stealing tech (which is still something I don't understand). If Viktor is all about the glorious revolution, yet we have clear evidence of his inferiority within the lore, this has a very negative portrayal on Viktor as a character in my eyes. Viktor is beaten by someone who is still flesh and bone. I feel like this would have some form of profound impact on him, instead of just viewing it as a minor setback or an underestimation of his enemy.


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Uccisore

Senior Member

07-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotRunaan View Post
Hi everyone,

We’ve been keeping an eye on this thread today (and others about Jayce and Viktor), and now that we’ve had a chance to listen to you guys and contemplate your feedback, we wanted to jump in.

Let’s talk about Viktor and Jayce, as we envision them:

We’d like to evolve Viktor into a complex, tormented villain in the League of Legends story, but we also want him to remain the sympathetic – and possibly redeemable – character he’s established to be in his own lore
There's no more Journal of Justice and no storyline tournies so I really don't know what you mean about 'evolving' the character's stories. How is Viktor ever going to be anything but what he was on release, other than through the casual reference to him (if ever) in some other champion's release bio? If you guys actually have some cool ideas about mechanisms to develop the lore, I'd love to hear about it.


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Ibuki Suika

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Senior Member

07-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotRunaan View Post
Hi everyone,

We’ve been keeping an eye on this thread today (and others about Jayce and Viktor), and now that we’ve had a chance to listen to you guys and contemplate your feedback, we wanted to jump in.

Let’s talk about Viktor and Jayce, as we envision them:

We’d like to evolve Viktor into a complex, tormented villain in the League of Legends story, but we also want him to remain the sympathetic – and possibly redeemable – character he’s established to be in his own lore. Tormented and obsessed with the superiority of machines, Viktor is on a slow descent into madness, and he seeks to push his “glorious evolution” – the transformation from man to machine – onto Runeterra at large. His confrontation with Piltover, a place he sees as weak (full of puny-minded scientists who could, after all, be “so much more”) was a step in this direction. The “acolytes” mentioned in Jayce’s bio were not random minions but in fact Zaunite humans Viktor has swayed to his cause (and augmented, of course, with “improvements”). Jayce stood against him, and such opposition is the first setback in Viktor’s plan – something he’ll have to overcome.

Unfortunately, within the storytelling constraints of a bio, we weren’t able to paint this nuanced picture of Viktor as we envision him.

Jayce’s bio is a story about Jayce. This is the way in which the humble inventor became a hero, but it’s also just the beginning of his journey. We wanted to hint at a lot of flaws he’s going to have to overcome: he’s brash, he has trouble with authority, and he’s more than a little arrogant. For example, from anyone’s perspective but his own, destroying Viktor’s lab in its entirety might have been overzealous. Secondly, Jayce ignored the warnings of the Piltover government to strike against Viktor alone, which speaks to his recklessness and arrogance. His actions had the greater good in mind: Jayce truly does embody Piltover’s focus on the purity of science and progress, and Viktor stands directly in opposition to those values. Jayce may have gotten a little bit lucky this time, though. Viktor underestimated Piltover, and thus underestimated Jayce. Things might not turn out so well for the Defender of Tomorrow the next time the two cross paths.

Overall, we want to set the stage for an epic struggle between our two paragons of science in Piltover and Zaun. After listening to your feedback today, we don’t think we quite accomplished that with Jayce’s bio. With that in mind, the Creative team is going to take a look at Jayce’s bio over the coming days and evaluate ways to improve it.

You might think a thread like this would be hard for us to read – but it’s actually incredibly rewarding to hear how passionate you all are about our characters and lore. Thanks for your enthusiastic feedback!
So what your saying is Jayce is Chaotic Good...and Viktor is Chaotic Neutral, but turning Chaotic Evil?


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Vulking

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Senior Member

07-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotRunaan View Post
Hi everyone,

We’ve been keeping an eye on this thread today (and others about Jayce and Viktor), and now that we’ve had a chance to listen to you guys and contemplate your feedback, we wanted to jump in.

Let’s talk about Viktor and Jayce, as we envision them:

We’d like to evolve Viktor into a complex, tormented villain in the League of Legends story, but we also want him to remain the sympathetic – and possibly redeemable – character he’s established to be in his own lore. Tormented and obsessed with the superiority of machines, Viktor is on a slow descent into madness, and he seeks to push his “glorious evolution” – the transformation from man to machine – onto Runeterra at large. His confrontation with Piltover, a place he sees as weak (full of puny-minded scientists who could, after all, be “so much more”) was a step in this direction. The “acolytes” mentioned in Jayce’s bio were not random minions but in fact Zaunite humans Viktor has swayed to his cause (and augmented, of course, with “improvements”). Jayce stood against him, and such opposition is the first setback in Viktor’s plan – something he’ll have to overcome.

Unfortunately, within the storytelling constraints of a bio, we weren’t able to paint this nuanced picture of Viktor as we envision him.

Jayce’s bio is a story about Jayce. This is the way in which the humble inventor became a hero, but it’s also just the beginning of his journey. We wanted to hint at a lot of flaws he’s going to have to overcome: he’s brash, he has trouble with authority, and he’s more than a little arrogant. For example, from anyone’s perspective but his own, destroying Viktor’s lab in its entirety might have been overzealous. Secondly, Jayce ignored the warnings of the Piltover government to strike against Viktor alone, which speaks to his recklessness and arrogance. His actions had the greater good in mind: Jayce truly does embody Piltover’s focus on the purity of science and progress, and Viktor stands directly in opposition to those values. Jayce may have gotten a little bit lucky this time, though. Viktor underestimated Piltover, and thus underestimated Jayce. Things might not turn out so well for the Defender of Tomorrow the next time the two cross paths.

Overall, we want to set the stage for an epic struggle between our two paragons of science in Piltover and Zaun. After listening to your feedback today, we don’t think we quite accomplished that with Jayce’s bio. With that in mind, the Creative team is going to take a look at Jayce’s bio over the coming days and evaluate ways to improve it.

You might think a thread like this would be hard for us to read – but it’s actually incredibly rewarding to hear how passionate you all are about our characters and lore. Thanks for your enthusiastic feedback!
Ok, I want the rivalry and the fight setting opportunity you want to put in motion BUT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T TURN VIKTOR INTO A GUY THAT STEAL OTHER INVENTORS IDEAS!!!! that was the sole reason that turned him into what he is now, if anything the one thing Viktor would never do is steal from others, that show weakness and is the complete opposite of what he should stand for.


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Slothiroth

Senior Member

07-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotRunaan View Post
It isn't Jayce's opinion of himself, it's just a story about his particular moment of glory. The point is that some of his actions in the story can be seen as flaws that may hinder him in his future endeavors, though. Jayce is a hero at heart, but he's going to run into challenges and struggle along his journey.
All you have to do really is make it so Viktor isn't portrayed as a petty thief in the lore. He could do countless numbers of things to Jayce to warrant a hostile and brash visit. Just not theft. It was a rather poor decision. No offense or anything =[

I still <3 you though.


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Hawkeye

Senior Member

07-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotRunaan View Post
Viktor is on a slow descent into madness, and he seeks to push his “glorious evolution” – the transformation from man to machine – onto Runeterra at large. His confrontation with Piltover, a place he sees as weak (full of puny-minded scientists who could, after all, be “so much more”) was a step in this direction.
The problem is that this doesn't come across in the lore, at all. The lore paints a picture of Viktor going there to steal designs for an arcane power converter. Why would you steal the designs of people you see as "puny-minded"?

If he sees Piltover as weak, then having him need to steal Piltover technology completely contradicts that. If they are weak, their technology would be weak too. He would just do the same thing he did in Zaun, try to sway Jayce and others to "upgrade", and attempt to destroy anyone who refused or stood in his way.

I'm fine with the direction you're taking Viktor, but it needs to be in a way that is believable.