[Guide] How to Destroy People By Shooting Water - A guide to Tristana.

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dunzees

Junior Member

09-07-2010

great guide! i am new and getting better with tristana, points in this guide really help. kudos.

+1


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xFERx

Senior Member

09-07-2010

Never played tristana before, but by reading ur guide, it sounds quite fun. Will try it. +1


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Manostra

Senior Member

09-08-2010

Heya, really nice Guide you made here and it gave me a lot of things to think about and i will definitive try out your Suggestions. Maybe you can give me some advices to refine my Trist playstlye.

I played up to date 621 Games, about 70% of it with Tristana and won almost exactly 50% of all Games, so im still in the lower Elo Ranges.


For the Runes, i had a test with 2 x trist and 2 x ashe one stacked all runes atk speed and one stacked all runes armor pen and than we autoattacked each other simultanously. The attack speed one always won. That result was unexpected, the full set of all amor pen runes didnt made up for the dmg of 1 more shoot after 12+ excanged hits.

Not that i want to say stacking Attack Speed runes is good, but i find a few of them very benifiting in my Rune build for an early advantage. Lategame the armor pen is better of course!

I also wanted to ask you why a life steal scepter is a bad Idea ? I dont need Pots, can take more harass and its part of a Bloodthirster or Starks Favor. Lategame a little lifesteal help me recover after a engagement without porting back to base. I agree though that on a direct engagement the other Stuff give you the edge. I can last hit creeps good enough without the blade. I consider the Scepter equal to Blade and Shield, and i would like to know why you consider it a bad Idea to start with.

I know that a infinity edge is awesome but lately games with 3+ Tank or High Hp heroes seem pretty standard. I have also problems to get squishys in front of my gun and i get focused more often when i become too reckless People used to ignore/underestimate Trist but in the last 20 games i feelt like i have some kind of aggro magnet in my pocket.

I go for Bloodrazor+Boots first and Infinity Edge after. Jungeling is a fixed source of income in my Midgame where the Claw really help to safe time. Most times the game is over when i finish Infinity Edge but if not i stack Bloodthirsters. I had a phase when i only stacked bloodthirsters. That was funny as hell but didn't worked anymore at a point. Your Idea with a Thornmail is also very interesting, i never considerd this a option because i have low Hp and for Yi, Teemo and Twitch i go always with exhaust. But i will test out if that can destroy a Yi on Highlander.


Maybe you can give out some more hints how to position trist and when to engage. I always try to stay behind my team and i engage always a few seconds after the fight broke out. I used to run in the frontline and harrass, but i died too often of it or i had to rocket out and got the skill on cooldown when i needed it.

But now i have the problem that i can't reach their carrys and only get the tanks but if possible i should ignore them as long squishy carrys are alive. However with 3 Tanks on the Enemy side and 2 Ranged Carrys its freaking hard to get in a decent position. If i run to the carrys the tanks will cc me and i will probably die from it. Especially Garen dash out damage like a dps and have amor and hp like a tank. Hes annoying and love to rape trist when he get the chance.

Any advice is welcomed


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xFERx

Senior Member

09-08-2010

@Leirkov

Will you include manamune in your build?
If yes...
Will it be good to rush for it?

Thx =)


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Leirkov

Senior Member

09-08-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manostra View Post
For the Runes, i had a test with 2 x trist and 2 x ashe one stacked all runes atk speed and one stacked all runes armor pen and than we autoattacked each other simultanously. The attack speed one always won. That result was unexpected, the full set of all amor pen runes didnt made up for the dmg of 1 more shoot after 12+ excanged hits.
If you're basing this off of like, 1v1 at level 1, there's no point. Attack speed is a useless stat to build, let alone build anything around. Armor pen allows you to do nearly true damage PER shot [not factoring in people building armor] rather than "1v1 attacking each other."

Quote:
I also wanted to ask you why a life steal scepter is a bad Idea ? I dont need Pots, can take more harass and its part of a Bloodthirster or Starks Favor. Lategame a little lifesteal help me recover after a engagement without porting back to base. I agree though that on a direct engagement the other Stuff give you the edge. I can last hit creeps good enough without the blade. I consider the Scepter equal to Blade and Shield, and i would like to know why you consider it a bad Idea to start with.
Because in order to gain any notable lifesteal you need to continuously spam your attacks, and that highly decreases your chances of scoring last hits. Also, people who walk into mid lane against me with 4-5 bars of HP generally lose at level 2. Seriously. Teemo/Tristana/Ashe, if you start with a Scepter and lane against me, you are either dead at level 2 [First blood usually] or tower hugging and gaining no EXP or last hits.

In Sniperness' guide to Annie, he makes a note of why taking a Doran's Ring is a better idea than a Sapphire Crystal and x2 health potions. My friend took a Doran's Ring on Annie, and he played against another Annie, who happened to take the Crystal and 2 HP pots. Guess who had more HP, and therefore could harass more efficiently? My friend. Basically, the enemy Annie was compeletely zoned, and if she went up for last hits she ate rebuttal from my friend. The less HP you have in lane, the easier you are to zone. I don't care how good you are with Ezreal, if you walk into a lane with 4 bars of HP, you're going to be harassed and your HP will drop really fast. Easy zoning for the enemy will EXTREMELY hurt your mid game, and definitely your late game unless you really start snowballing it back up with great plays or won teamfights.

Quote:
I know that a infinity edge is awesome but lately games with 3+ Tank or High Hp heroes seem pretty standard. I have also problems to get squishys in front of my gun and i get focused more often when i become too reckless People used to ignore/underestimate Trist but in the last 20 games i feelt like i have some kind of aggro magnet in my pocket.
This tank metagame currently doesn't provide too much of an issue TO ME personally. However if you are having problems you will need to carefully position yourself, or honestly, attack the "weakest" tank / beefy hero, because good squishies hide. If you are really daring and know what you're doing (you REALLY need to know the situation here), you can jump to the enemy squishy, take them on and then jump out. I did that against a Gangplank while his friends Cho and Garen were next to him, I killed him but thanks to the silence from both Cho and Garen, I had no way of escape, so I died easily. However, this is situational.

The best way to deal with not being able to hit squishies is just your position. If you can't hit them without taking damage, it's not worth it. Garen is the only person who really gives me a problem because he can silence me out of my jump.

Quote:
I go for Bloodrazor+Boots first and Infinity Edge after. Jungeling is a fixed source of income in my Midgame where the Claw really help to safe time. Most times the game is over when i finish Infinity Edge but if not i stack Bloodthirsters. I had a phase when i only stacked bloodthirsters. That was funny as hell but didn't worked anymore at a point. Your Idea with a Thornmail is also very interesting, i never considerd this a option because i have low Hp and for Yi, Teemo and Twitch i go always with exhaust. But i will test out if that can destroy a Yi on Highlander.
It depends on the situation as most cases in this game go - if Yi has an Infinity, Starks, Bloodthirster x2 and Boots, you probably won't win if you have your Infinity, LW and Thirster x1. However if you play it extremely smart (let's say for example - level 6 when you both get your ults) you can make Yi run out of his Highlander before re-engagement. He initiates on you, and activates highlander. Blow him away. Highlander is short at level 1 - so the time he has to spend getting back to you is wasted AS and damage output. Jump on him after and then kill him. You win easily there. You gotta use your skills strategically.

Quote:
Maybe you can give out some more hints how to position trist and when to engage. I always try to stay behind my team and i engage always a few seconds after the fight broke out. I used to run in the frontline and harrass, but i died too often of it or i had to rocket out and got the skill on cooldown when i needed it.
If you know a recording program I'd happily record a series for my guide. I was thinking about doing this actually and would love to do this, if anyone can get me a program that works for recording (I know of Fraps, obviously) and editing I'll do it.

Quote:
But now i have the problem that i can't reach their carrys and only get the tanks but if possible i should ignore them as long squishy carrys are alive. However with 3 Tanks on the Enemy side and 2 Ranged Carrys its freaking hard to get in a decent position. If i run to the carrys the tanks will cc me and i will probably die from it. Especially Garen dash out damage like a dps and have amor and hp like a tank. Hes annoying and love to rape trist when he get the chance.
What I do is actually use my jump for a position - knowing I can get a kill. Let's get a scenario going.

Teamfight breaks out in the jungle near Lizard, you are on the blue team and it's your jungle.

I jump on the small white golem camp and then position myself to hit the carries there. At a higher level you will shoot through the wall (Think of yourself as Kog'Maw in that position). If you net a kill you can have your team run into the rest of them and then you can jump in for the slow - people probably won't run out and attack you there without the risk of dying.

If it's a laning fight, think of who the team is. If it's Rammus, you're gonna get taunted and die. If it's Garen, silenced and die. If it's Cho, you will have an easier time, presumming that you can avoid Rupture.

Hopefully that helped =]

Quote:
Originally Posted by xFERx View Post
@Leirkov

Will you include manamune in your build?
If yes...
Will it be good to rush for it?

Thx =)
If the math was proven correct, at max you're only gaining.. 20 damage from the 1k mana stacks? You're not going to have mana problems end game, so for the mana portion, I don't see the point. AD, it's nice, but eh. I see it better for someone like Ezreal who has mana problems spamming skills. [Of course when you win a team fight you're going to be OOM but it should never be at a point where you're useless. You basically just use Q, use W on people running away, use it again when someone dies.. and repeat the cycle.]


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2PwnNown

Junior Member

09-08-2010

@Leirkov

Nooblet Warning: I have yet to play a ranked game (only 28).

I do take long sword and I do take all plus damage runes. though I only have the blue ones, cause I refuse to spend actual $. Anyways, my starting damage is 69. I train explosive shot until it hits 100, and train rocket jump. With this I am able to get a first blood very early lvl 2-3 (ignite and tele for summer skills). Then, if i feel I can get a kill or two, I will turn my sword into occult, get 25% attack speed boots, then right away get another long sword, depending on me coming up with a kill or two to get my stacks up, then I make a choice depending on team composition (taking and not making a lot of money I go for the 4% magic damage on hit item (never remember names) or if is squashy, i go cleaver, then thirsty, than infinity blade.

I like your idea to go arm pen, I love how much -60 armor can do, so I should give it a try. But i suspect biggest problems in guides such as this, it really depends on your ability to own middle lane. I can nearly get a first kill on most hero's including kat (he never gives me problems early). I only have problems with Kass, Krog, and rarely karth.

Once again, maybe i had decent success cause I don't play ranked games and people are lol bad. Thought I would share my experience. There is something to be said when you are harassing with explosive shot + 69 plus damage instead of (what about 47 is her base without attack damage items?)

Just a thought.

See you around.

2pwnNown


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Takalah

Senior Member

09-08-2010

stopped reading when you started flaming in caps in the middle of your own guide. you sound like a tool // 11 years old, I don't care either way. I scrolled past oodles of wall text too just to get down here. Good guides speak for themselves. No need to be full of yourself, it turns off us normal types.


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Spiffy McBang

Senior Member

09-08-2010

Very good guide, and as I've been using Tris a lot lately (switched from Annie because my teams always seem to need either a carry or a tank, not a mid-game bomber), I have a few questions/comments (keep in mind this is from a level 26 who only plays normal games).

-Do you have specific suggestions for laning against champs with noticeably more early burst or survivability? I'm thinking mainly of Ryze and Mord. My main tactic revolves around my early build, which I'll get to later, but I wonder about strategy.

Against Ryze I try to poke him right away, but any Ryze with two brain cells to rub together runs away when I approach. I can deny last hits this way early, but after a few levels he has snare + nuke that outdoes my E plus auto by a noticeable amount. The one Mord I fought was definitely smart; he'd run in, clobber my minions, push hard with the shield up, then bail when it dropped. If I started shooting him with the shield up, he'd chase me. But he used angles well and made it hard to get more than a single potshot in when he approached before his shield went up, at least without sitting in my minion crew and getting smacked by his AoE.

-Any general tips for situations where someone else calls mid, but there's no good farming partner to lane with? Get out of there ASAP and jungle when you can? Be a good partner and push the lane even if it costs you a little gold? These are the games where I struggle badly until I can catch up in gear, though by then it's sometimes too late.

-Summoner spells: I may swap out Teleport for Ignite. But I've found a great deal of power in Flash. I ran Exhaust for a while to complement my offense build, then switched to Ghost for the same reasons you like it. However, while Flash certainly isn't in the same league as Ghost as a chasing tool, combined with RJ it makes Tris almost unkillable apart from the most dire situations. It's especially useful if you're running with Zerker boots, since she's not that fast wearing those. (I usually take Boots of Mobility, which makes me even harder to kill and allows for quick getaways after turret bombing. But I would never suggest that's a better choice; it's just what I'm used to and enjoy.)

-Masteries: Is this what you suggest? http://www.fieldsofjustice.com/maste...wwulylyPPauwZy

-Build Q #1: I always thought of LW as a situational piece of gear, not something to be used as a regular part of a build. I've run some numbers, and I was wrong; the armor pen gives you about a 12% damage increase per shot regardless of the target's starting armor (a no-armor Tristana will drop from 41% to 29% damage reduced, while a random tank with 200 armor will drop from 67% to 55%).

But is that still better than the other options, especially mid-game? LW is around the price of a BF sword. If you're rocking 200 damage- which is more than you'll have when you get LW according to the guide's build- that adds 24 damage per hit. BF sword is 40 more damage than LW; factor in the attack speed and it's basically even on a stationary target. Given that most fights include a pretty high degree of mobility, that would seem to hand the BF sword an advantage.

Obviously any competent Tris will end up over 200 damage end-game. But that suggests if you're going to pick up an LW, do it late, like when you have a Bloodthirster or two rolling and 300+ damage going out.

-Build Q #2: This relates to the reliance-on-build laning strategy I mentioned earlier. I stole an idea from another guide to begin with a rejuv bead and 6 pots (I usually go all health, but that's because I'm still working on harass timing; I might need some mana eventually). I tried going Doran's Blade and a pot, but I was simply too vulnerable and had to recall much sooner than I wanted (didn't help that I was in a 2v2 lane). The mass of pots with the rejuv bead allows me to be very aggressive and battle champs with some sort of significant statistical advantage (I've run off or killed several Ryzes who just couldn't keep up with the HP regen).

The original guide's idea is to go Emblem of Valor + Boots 1 on the first trip back, followed by BF Sword -> IE, and eventually turning the Emblem into Stark's. I've altered this; I don't go for Stark's anymore, and on my first trip back the order of purchase preference is BF Sword > Emblem > Boots. Once I start on the Bloodthirster, I'll sell the Emblem if necessary to buy whatever piece is next.

My opinion is that this is a potentially much stronger start than Doran's Blade + pot; in effect you're getting an extra 1k HP rather than 120, with the downside of increased vulnerability to burst. However, my experience has been that almost no one can burst a full or near-full HP Tris to zero early unless I do something stupid to allow it. As for last hitting, I do lose out on a few close ones, but not nearly as much gold as I would if I had to sit back or recall because I ate a few shots and couldn't gain it back quickly enough to keep from getting zoned.

Is there another reason to consider Doran's the better start? Should I be able to effectively harass without taking the hits that make those pots so advantageous?

Tips and Tricks: This may be too situational to merit mention, but Explosive Shot's relative late-game uselessness makes it perfect to knock off a Banshee's aura. Can't wade into the middle of the bad guys to use it, but since generally tanks have it, you can pop it on initiation and leave them vulnerable. Also great if you have, say, Rammus chasing you down and you need to buster him away.


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Leirkov

Senior Member

09-08-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2PwnNown View Post
I do take long sword and I do take all plus damage runes. though I only have the blue ones, cause I refuse to spend actual $. Anyways, my starting damage is 69. I train explosive shot until it hits 100, and train rocket jump. With this I am able to get a first blood very early lvl 2-3 (ignite and tele for summer skills). Then, if i feel I can get a kill or two, I will turn my sword into occult, get 25% attack speed boots, then right away get another long sword, depending on me coming up with a kill or two to get my stacks up, then I make a choice depending on team composition (taking and not making a lot of money I go for the 4% magic damage on hit item (never remember names) or if is squashy, i go cleaver, then thirsty, than infinity blade.
Long Sword is fine item, however, as I said before - you have no HP (4bars?) to start the game. Anyone with decent damage (Ezreal, Katarina, Annie) can zone you out of EXP easily. You will not be able (early game) to run up to someone and use E and auto attacks without eating some HARD rebuttal. (Ezreal mystic shot, Ashe volley, Katarina Bouncing Blades + shunpo, etc).

Quote:
I like your idea to go arm pen, I love how much -60 armor can do, so I should give it a try. But i suspect biggest problems in guides such as this, it really depends on your ability to own middle lane. I can nearly get a first kill on most hero's including kat (he never gives me problems early). I only have problems with Kass, Krog, and rarely karth.
It's only about -30 since you're using reds ;x. It's not really depending on your ability to own, just makes your damage hit harder since everyone starts with basically no armor. Estimated 30/30 (rounded, ofc) per resist, so you're almost doing true damage.

A good Tristana will have a hardfought battle against a good Kassadin, so it's really a tossup. I've usually won against Kassadins before but it's possible to lose. Kog'Maw is pretty lame early on so you can harass early and hope you can win the battle. Once he puts on his range (W attack) you need to run away [you may get zoned with this though] to avoid taking too much damage. Karthus is a rarity but if you can dodge Lay Waste, he's not really a problem.

Quote:
Once again, maybe i had decent success cause I don't play ranked games and people are lol bad. Thought I would share my experience. There is something to be said when you are harassing with explosive shot + 69 plus damage instead of (what about 47 is her base without attack damage items?)
Well, until you hit 30, you're not going to be playing against top players [and even then once you hit 30 it's not guaranteed] so you would need a bit more seasoning. I've had my share of REALLY bad players who are for some reason in my ELO, and I've played with tons of GOOD players. For example in a ranked game I faced a Katarina in mid and she was VERY good. She kept me zoned for a bit but I caught up and started figuring out her strategy, nearly beat her. However I used my ulti too early and she just Shunpo'd to me and then ulti'd me to death, embarrassing. So I'm not writing this like I'm #1 in the world, but from my mid-high ELO experiences.

@Spiffy, too much to quote rofl

Ryze: What will kill you is his E (bouncing move - spell flux) and the Q (Overload). Basically, if he uses his E to farm, make sure you can stay away from minions to avoid the bounce, then it's safe to harass him. [WQ will not do significant damage, and if he keeps abusing it, he'll go OOM quite fast] At level 6 you need to be REALLY cautious of trying to jump in for a kill, as his faceroll RWEQ combo will be the death of you. Therefore, wait for spells to go on CD and then engage. Put him in unfavorable position. The key to winning 1v1 is mind games. Force him to play your game.

Mordekaiser: 1-3 won't be bad, grab your advantage there. I know, he's really hard to harass because of the shield. But if there are no minions around, what shield does he have? He WILL push you though and he's a rough go. You will win easily, or lose semi-bad. It depends on his skill level. Also, if he has to pot because he used so many skills that he's losing HP, take the opportunity to harass the hell out of him, even if you don't kill him, making Morde go b and giving you a level advantage is the biggest advantage you can get on him.

2v2:
Evaluate who your partner is. If it's Gangplank/Tryndamere, you probably don't wanna lane with them, they should be with a Janna/Taric/Soraka of some sort so they can farm free and easy and then hypercarry you later on. You want someone with CC, so like I said, Rammus is nice. Shen is decent, anyone with snares and such (Morgana, Ryze) are nice. But if it's like Poppy or something, just take your last hits and wait. If they can handle 1v2 after a while, jungling is an option since you have a slow with your W and you can gank decently. Just choose your ganks wisely, of course.

Masteries:
No, here's what I take: http://leaguecraft.com/masteries/300...13040001000000

Though if you are taking Ghost, get the Ghost mastery.

Build #1: 1.2 a/s + 500+ damage crits = "omg trist does so much damage." By the point I have IE + LW, I get double pots. So my AS and AD are up high along with crit chance so I hit like a truck.

Build #2: Doran's Blade gives you the HP to survive early game (so you don't get zoned), damage (barely, but easier last hits) and lifesteal, again not noticeable, but it rewards you slightly for last hits. Rejuv doesn't build into anything useful for Trist so it's just silly. Sounds like I'm contradicting myself with Doran's since it doesn't build into anything, but HP early game is invaluable and it really has saved my life multiple times. If I walk off with 90 HP I'm like "Thank you Doran's HP." But at least you get some resale value out of Blade/Shield/Ring.

@Exposive, oh my god that's genius. Dunno why I never thought of that lmfao. I could've saved myself so many deaths if I thought of it xD. Thanks.


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Spiffy McBang

Senior Member

09-08-2010

Thanks for the reply... maybe once I get snared and popped in the face I should chase Ryze for a couple more hits?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leirkov View Post
Build #1: 1.2 a/s + 500+ damage crits = "omg trist does so much damage." By the point I have IE + LW, I get double pots. So my AS and AD are up high along with crit chance so I hit like a truck.
You always get elixirs? I always read about how they pay for themselves, but I'm often in games where a real teamfight ends up being very uncommon. One team gathers up and the other just gets pounded two or three at a time. Either I'm on the bad side and have no real way to fight the horde, or I'm on the good side and I could get that money just by timing my buster properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leirkov View Post
Build #2: Doran's Blade gives you the HP to survive early game (so you don't get zoned), damage (barely, but easier last hits) and lifesteal, again not noticeable, but it rewards you slightly for last hits. Rejuv doesn't build into anything useful for Trist so it's just silly. Sounds like I'm contradicting myself with Doran's since it doesn't build into anything, but HP early game is invaluable and it really has saved my life multiple times. If I walk off with 90 HP I'm like "Thank you Doran's HP." But at least you get some resale value out of Blade/Shield/Ring.
Do you often fight down to that low HP from full? I don't, but that may be due to either my style, the level of play my opponents are at, or both. I just use the pots to win an attrition battle and make them vulnerable come level 6. If that changes, I may revisit this.

As for resale, you lose about 160g more going for the Emblem than using Doran's, and about 65g less if you stick with the rejuv. Either way t's pretty minimal in the grand scheme of the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leirkov View Post
@Exposive, oh my god that's genius. Dunno why I never thought of that lmfao. I could've saved myself so many deaths if I thought of it xD. Thanks.
Heh, just one of those things you come up with on the fly as a survival tactic. Rammus was not a random example. >_>