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Akali Question

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Audio7

Senior Member

09-01-2010

Quote:
ricklessabandon:
snowball items aside, hybrid actually does almost the same amount of damage after the builds are finished, and the hybrid build costs 1k less. if you look at the builds as you go through the game, hybrid does more damage than the "standard" ap build you see on the forums--and it does it faster.

anyone building like this:
doran's blade
boots1
rylai's
boots2
lichbane
zhonya's

is playing a gimped build. you do crazy damage against squishy targets you say? well, you could be doing more. if you've had bad results with hybrid, then you've been building incorrectly.


it's cool to spread info around that isn't correct. i love all your facts.


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Firrox

Senior Member

09-01-2010

I go
Tome+pot
Tome
Revolver
Boots1
B Blade
Gunblade
Rageblade
Rylai's
and a lichbane if it goes that long it never really does though.

I use my caster page for akali so I start with 30AP and 9MPen and 21/0/9 obviously picking up red/blue buff mastery.


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reaver99

Senior Member

09-01-2010

Quote:
ricklessabandon:
snowball items aside, hybrid actually does almost the same amount of damage after the builds are finished, and the hybrid build costs 1k less. if you look at the builds as you go through the game, hybrid does more damage than the "standard" ap build you see on the forums--and it does it faster.

anyone building like this:
doran's blade
boots1
rylai's
boots2
lichbane
zhonya's

is playing a gimped build. you do crazy damage against squishy targets you say? well, you could be doing more. if you've had bad results with hybrid, then you've been building incorrectly.

unless you can back that up with numbers, I'm pretty sure AP does more than hybrid. lichbane adds your AP to your AD and discipline of might doubles it as magic damage, which is far better than straight up AD.


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TKana

Senior Member

09-01-2010

Reaver99 is correct. The reason Akali's burst is so high is the fact she can tripple dip with AP.

Spell damage is increased.
Then you get the lichbane proc.
Then you get the damage from your passive on the lichbane proc.

400 Ap = about 1.2k damage with just your shadow dance (before magic resist/armor). That's burst.

Keep in mind the following:
50 MR + armor means you do 33% less spell damage, 33% less lichbane proc damage and 50% less passive damage.

You'd probably do about 700ish damage.


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undercover sbz

Senior Member

09-01-2010

Quote:
AerisireA:
no hybrid sucks my ****
play pure AP and watch squishies cry
9/21/0
Doran's Blade (You need 2 flat attack quints)
Boots
Mejais
upgrade boots
rylais
lichbane
zhonya's
????
600+ AP
meaning...
Mark does ~ 400 on throw
~400 on active
lichbane ~ 600
dance ~ 600
lichbane ~600
full burst? ~3k give or take...


I've experimented with both builds and no doubt hybrid is ok, but full AP akali seems to bring more to the table, however I usually build the core as doran's blade -> situational boots, mostly mercs -> rylai's -> lich bane. This build gives around 100 AD / 200 AP and nearing 100 armor and 100 mres, as i often get guardian angel afterwards, you get around 150/150 both armor and mres in the end. The real reason I'm quoting this, however, is because I do not support snowballing since you will delay your rylai's and lich bane leaving you squishy and more prone to losing any stacks you've obtained.


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Naesala

Senior Member

09-01-2010

You can always try to play a half hybrid build, 3x Gunblade, lichbane, zhonya and any kind of boots that you would like to have for your situation. Hybrid isn't so bad aslong you get lichbane (it's much better to have something more that utilizes your ap right?).

Currently the Gunblade can provide you with quite crazy stats, 33% spell vamp, 15% life steal (not so important) 60ad, 75ap (not sure if it was 70 or 75ap) and a decent slow for 1 squishy kill (unless you got cc:ed). The full build would give you about 180 extra AD, 45% life steal, 100% spell vamp (that's quite nice) 1 slow, about 531AP, your passive would add atleast 120%+ damage each melee hit (1AD would be worth 2+AD) so the extra 180AD would be worth 400+AD (I haven't added base AD) or so.



When you're playing AP Akali you usually notice that at some point more ap doesn't help you as much you would like to therefor some AD and lich bane is needed to exceed the burst limmits that AP got and it becomes harder for the enemy team to itemize against your damage output aswell. However AP does more damage in the beginning but once they got the mr it's almost always better to go hybrid from there.


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TKana

Senior Member

09-01-2010

Did some quick math:

AP SPEC

Dorans Blade + Rylai's + Lichbane + Zhonya's vs 0 MR/armor
Shadow Dance + 1st hit (Lichbane proc) = 1256 damage

Breakdown:
Shadow Dance 428
Lichbane proc 467
Passive damage from lichbane proc 361

Dorans Blade + Rylai's + Lichbane + Zhonya's vs 50 MR/Armor
Shadow Dance + 1st hit (Lichbane proc) = 757 damage

Breakdown:
Shadow Dance 285
Lichbane proc 311
Passive damage from lichbane proc 160

Hybrid (+ Gunblade, -Lichbane)

Dorans Blade + Rylai's + Rageblade (full stacks)+ Gunblade vs 0 MR/Armor
Shadow Dance + 1st hit (no Lichbane proc) = 718 damage

Breakdown:
Shadow Dance 374
Damage 221
Passive damage 123

Dorans Blade + Rylai's + Rageblade (full stacks)+ Gunblade vs 50 MR/Armor
Shadow Dance + 1st hit (no Lichbane proc) = 451 damage

Breakdown:
Shadow Dance 249
Damage 111
Passive damage 55


Hybrid (-Gunblade, +Lichbane)

Dorans Blade + Rylai's + Rageblade (full stacks)+ Lichbane vs 0 MR/Armor
Shadow Dance + 1st hit (Lichbane proc) = 1,017 damage

Breakdown:
Shadow Dance 377
Lichbane proc 409
Passive damage from lichbane proc 231

Dorans Blade + Rylai's + Rageblade (full stacks)+ Lichbane vs 50 MR/Armor
Shadow Dance + 1st hit (Lichbane proc) = 627 damage

Breakdown:
Shadow Dance 251
Lichbane proc 273
Passive damage from lichbane proc 103


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Naesala

Senior Member

09-01-2010

Quote:
TKana:
Did some quick math:

AP SPEC

Dorans Blade + Rylai's + Lichbane + Zhonya's vs 0 MR/armor
Shadow Dance + 1st hit (Lichbane proc) = 1256 damage

Breakdown:
Shadow Dance 428
Lichbane proc 467
Passive damage from lichbane proc 361

Dorans Blade + Rylai's + Lichbane + Zhonya's vs 50 MR/Armor
Shadow Dance + 1st hit (Lichbane proc) = 757 damage

Breakdown:
Shadow Dance 285
Lichbane proc 311
Passive damage from lichbane proc 160

Hybrid (+ Gunblade, -Lichbane)

Dorans Blade + Rylai's + Rageblade (full stacks)+ Gunblade vs 0 MR/Armor
Shadow Dance + 1st hit (no Lichbane proc) = 718 damage

Breakdown:
Shadow Dance 374
Damage 221
Passive damage 123

Dorans Blade + Rylai's + Rageblade (full stacks)+ Gunblade vs 50 MR/Armor
Shadow Dance + 1st hit (no Lichbane proc) = 451 damage

Breakdown:
Shadow Dance 249
Damage 111
Passive damage 55


Hybrid (-Gunblade, +Lichbane)

Dorans Blade + Rylai's + Rageblade (full stacks)+ Lichbane vs 0 MR/Armor
Shadow Dance + 1st hit (Lichbane proc) = 1,017 damage

Breakdown:
Shadow Dance 377
Lichbane proc 409
Passive damage from lichbane proc 231

Dorans Blade + Rylai's + Rageblade (full stacks)+ Lichbane vs 50 MR/Armor
Shadow Dance + 1st hit (Lichbane proc) = 627 damage

Breakdown:
Shadow Dance 251
Lichbane proc 273
Passive damage from lichbane proc 103


Not so bad math however it doesn't show how a full scale damage output build is (sure rylai's can be really usefull but do you really need it when you're pratically always in melee or when you got a active slow or two?). I know AP seems alot better with these calculations however, AP got a limmited amount of health while a hybrid build (just assuming that you're using full damage output builds) can make you go on much more especially if you would have 100% spell vamp (1-3 shadow dances would be enough to heal up the amount that rylai's got in extra health).

Eitherway they're both usefull under certain conditions and don't forget that you'll always take damage during a fight. Hybrid wins in a longer fight while AP got a limmited time with huge burst that's all (although full AP can't do so much when all abilities are at cd).


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TKana

Senior Member

09-01-2010

My post above assumes:

1 damage quint
the + damage talent
Stats @ lvl 18

no other talents

@Naesala:
i made a quicky spreadsheet which predicts damge. Feel free to say which items you'd use and i could easily calculate which would do more damage. Also, keep in mind that 100% spellvamp requires some serious money, and you usually wont get that in a game.Most games i play end when before i finish Lichbane.

Also, keep in mind that the most occuring reason you die as Akali is the fact you get seen and get bursted down. No matter how much spellvamp/lifesteal you have, you still die when you recieved when you recieve around 2k-2.5k HP. Rylais'give you a bit more breathing space. Zhonya's gives you 2 seconds.

EDIt : Rylai's slow is far more usefull then the Gunblade activated thingy.


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ARE YOU MY WAIFU

Member

09-01-2010

I guess I should have mention I play on TT that means there is less time to farm, but I have managed to wreck a yi by matching his damage output and buying a thornmail. I will try an AP build but, i like more sustained damage so i could destroy the whole team. Once I finished the gunblade I built a rylais and a bloodthirster for a damage and slow. Each auto attack dealt around 300 damage and you really dont need burst on the ninjas they low cooldowns anyway.


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