stealth mode is overpowered

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Altor

Member

11-02-2009

Stealth is ridiculous because you can't see the unit at all. Anti-stealth measures are only potions which are really expensive at the beginning. Later in the game stealth units are a bit weaker relatively speaking, but I find farming against a stealth is just brutal.

Some ideas:

- make it like WOW where you can see them if you get close enough
- make it like SC where you can see where they are but can't target
- remove stealth altogether (yay)
- make the beacon cheaper but work only when you're there

If you disagree that stealth is OP, please explain to me how to counter it, esp at the beginning, and esp when they team the stealther up with someone who has a good slow.


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Yousosmart

Member

11-02-2009

You obviously aren't aware of wards, are you? 150 gold apiece, grant vision in an area, detects invisible enemies? Does that ring a bell?


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Shizz

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Senior Member

11-02-2009

There's also a 450g Oracle's elixir that grants you sight of stealth until you die.


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Altor

Member

11-02-2009

I referred to the wards by a wrong name, becaon, above. However there's a number of reasons why I think the ward aren't sufficient:

- for the first 15-20 minutes while farming, you go back and forth between your turret to their turret. you would need at least 2, probably 3 to cover that range
- 150 gold and 450 gold is expensive for the first 15-20 minutes. that sets you behind on critical pieces of equipment as well
- unless you have teleport, you don't go back until typically around 1000 gold, or else you fall behind in levels. that means even if you wanted to stack you wouldn't have the means or money
- they last 3 minutes, so 15-20 minutes of farming, you would need 5-7 of them at least. that's 750-1050 gold. not so cheap now

The wards do have a good use from 20 minutes on while you tend to go around the map more fighting each as a big group. Then you drop one down in the area you're fighting to see the stealthers. I'm mostly talking about the first 20 minutes where I just have a brutal time not dropping behind everyone else, by either dying or playing really cautiously.

Do you use wards at the beginning? Do you not have any problems laneing against an Evelynn or Twitch?


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Altor

Member

11-02-2009

Also, the stealth and countermeasures are really binary. Either you have stealth and nobody can see you at all, or you have countermeasures and stealth is effectively useless. I think there should be more possibilities in-between. Stealth gives you an advantage, and countermeasures reduce that advantage, ie. not to the extreme one or the other that there is now.


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The Senate

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Senior Member

11-02-2009

Altor, I don't know if you remember how it used to be, but stealth used to be so gimp.

Twitch and Eve were at a complete disadvantage in the game.

Just recently (like in the last couple months) they finally took out the wildly powerful stealth countering Clairvoyance and replaced it with something much less powerful. That change made stealth more competitively viable and was generally considered by the community as a good idea. (at least in retrospect)

Clairvoyance used to be the summoner spell version of buying a sight rod, except they were way better in every way and having just one champion with specced clairvoyance completely ruined any chance Twitch or Eve had of being effective.

Stealth is NOT overpowered.

Stealth was TERRIBLE when it had the counters and restrictions it used to have.

Right now, stealth is the most balanced (in both directions) that it's ever been at any stage since early beta and I see absolutely no reason to change it at all.


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Yousosmart

Member

11-02-2009

Altor, Dota gets complaints about that **** ALL THE TIME when it comes to heroes like Gondar, Clinkz and Rikimaru. The trick is to remember that stealth heroes generally die easily when you and your teammates focus attacks on them.

If that doesn't work you could always hug your towers. Stealth heroes won't dare to approach you if you tower hug. Sure, it's cowardly, but it works.

Although you have a point about there being limited ways to counter stealth heroes. Something I've noticed is that there isn't anything like Dust of Appearance in the shops. That should be added among future items.


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Piranha Petunia

Senior Member

11-02-2009

Another thing with stealth countermeasures is that they are only effective against stealth. Let me explain before you flame. When you face a group with 3 or more tanks, it is a good idea to get a Bloodrazor. Now, while this item is meant to counter health stacking, the unique item property also can be used on people that are not health stacking, it's just less effective. You can buy the item for the other stats and it will still work, but the item shines best when you go against health stackers, and is generally not taken unless needed.

What anti-stealth items need is something to make it worth having outside of detecting stealth. Right now if a stealther is in the game, that means you are now spending a decent amount of starting gold and even more throughout the game just to be on a level playing field. I don't think stealth is an OP mechanic (unless you're Twitch (: ), but I do think the countermeasures to it are lackluster at best.


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Lemt

Senior Member

11-02-2009

I do agree the game needs better (not really more powerful) countermeasures for stealth. I love playing Twitch, but agree the items for fighting him are too narrow.


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Chillspawn

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Senior Member

11-02-2009

Oracles Elixir
Vision Wards
Corkis Phosphorous Bomb detects stealth
Towers detect stealth
Clairvoyance
Twisted Fates ultimate
Soraka, Katarina, a couple others only have ability icons light up when other heroes are near, use this to your advantage.

If you're dieing to Evelyn, she got fed. If you're dieing to Shaco, stealth detect won't help you survive.. It'll help you kill him. If you're dieing to twitch, grab a friend with a stun.