Leona: Comprehensive Discussion

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Dark Kuno

Senior Member

01-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keitterman View Post
But really, if you think she's so flawed right from the design standpoint, why play her? there's 108 other champs to play.
Because I like her aggressive style. And unlike most other aggressive melee champs with a ranged initiation all of the other champs with ranged initiation skillshots (Blitz/amumu, naut, etc) Leona is the only one that doesn't care about minions being in the way.

Even if I didn't personally like her I would still argue that not allowing her access to her own passive, but balancing her other abilities around her passive's damage is a flawed design. Because, it is.

Especially combined with Riot's official reason being they want her to promote team play in a team based game and again don't apply this reasoning to any other champion in the game.

Either don't penalize/balance her other abilities based on the damage potential of her passive, or give her access to her passive's damage in some form.


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Keitterman

Senior Member

01-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Kuno View Post
Because I like her aggressive style. And unlike most other aggressive melee champs with a ranged initiation all of the other champs with ranged initiation skillshots (Blitz/amumu, naut, etc) Leona is the only one that doesn't care about minions being in the way.

Even if I didn't personally like her I would still argue that not allowing her access to her own passive, but balancing her other abilities around her passive's damage is a flawed design. Because, it is.

Especially combined with Riot's official reason being they want her to promote team play in a team based game and again don't apply this reasoning to any other champion in the game.

Either don't penalize/balance her other abilities based on the damage potential of her passive, or give her access to her passive's damage in some form.
I dunno man, i mean we're both here arguing that she need ssomething, but it's funny we're at odds of "what"

there are plenty of champs that "promote" team play, but leona's the only one that's exclusive to it. I mean, nun can jungle, and hes aura makes him prime for bot lane support. I just don't agree that her design is flawed, i think they can keep her "promoting team play" while giving her the ability to do other things. This forum thread has a ton of great suggestions. It makes me wonder if anyone at Riot has tried any of them.


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Dark Kuno

Senior Member

01-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keitterman View Post
I dunno man, i mean we're both here arguing that she need ssomething, but it's funny we're at odds of "what"

there are plenty of champs that "promote" team play, but leona's the only one that's exclusive to it. I mean, nun can jungle, and hes aura makes him prime for bot lane support. I just don't agree that her design is flawed, i think they can keep her "promoting team play" while giving her the ability to do other things. This forum thread has a ton of great suggestions. It makes me wonder if anyone at Riot has tried any of them.
See that's the issue

the whole concept of designing a champ to "promote team play" is a false premise.

LoL is already a team based game. The game itself promotes team play. There's no need to burden one specific champion with that responsibility when the same demands are not asked of any other champ in the game. Especially when that burden causes the champion's overall performance to be below every other champion in the same role(s) she is supposed to fill.

Leona's design is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

01-03-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Kuno View Post
See that's the issue

the whole concept of designing a champ to "promote team play" is a false premise.

LoL is already a team based game. The game itself promotes team play. There's no need to burden one specific champion with that responsibility when the same demands are not asked of any other champ in the game. Especially when that burden causes the champions overall performance to be below every other champion in the same role(s) she is supposed to fill.

Leona's design is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
what are you talking about?

Her passive says
In teamfights leona so stronk! Fight where other peoplez are at for bonus win!

She's a champ who does more damage in teamfights! sounds legit to me


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Afael

Senior Member

01-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CerealBoxOfDoom View Post
what are you talking about?

Her passive says
In teamfights leona so stronk! Fight where other peoplez are at for bonus win!

She's a champ who does more damage in teamfights! sounds legit to me
Being strong in teamfights should not come in price of champions personal strength. Any other tank in the game can perform well enough by themselves. Malphite can jungle or go top and be a huge pain there. Nautilus can jungle or support. Leona must be with her team at all times, severely reducing her potential of being anything but support.
And even so, in a teamfight, she isn't that strong. Once she initiated, all Leona's skills are on cooldown and she can reapply her passive. Other initiators may be stronger than Leona just because they are able to deal damage by themselves, which is likely to surpass what Leona passive can do.


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ePoiuytrtyuioP

Senior Member

01-04-2013

A small change that would make Leona more enjoyable and a bit stronger would be to allow Sunlight to stack charges on the targets.

She's pretty strong in the right hands, and I don't think she needs big buffs. She's an early game beast that can chain CC and provide huge burst to adcs. Late game she makes your team's AoE burst much more noticeable and can lock down the enemy ADC/AP.


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

01-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Afael View Post
Being strong in teamfights should not come in price of champions personal strength. Any other tank in the game can perform well enough by themselves. Malphite can jungle or go top and be a huge pain there. Nautilus can jungle or support. Leona must be with her team at all times, severely reducing her potential of being anything but support.
And even so, in a teamfight, she isn't that strong. Once she initiated, all Leona's skills are on cooldown and she can reapply her passive. Other initiators may be stronger than Leona just because they are able to deal damage by themselves, which is likely to surpass what Leona passive can do.
I dont want a tank that does things for itself to be honest lol. She can do plenty as AP or AD I guess but I personally am really not interested in tanks designed to go solo.

and malphite is a fighter, not a tank. Not even a fair comparison


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Dark Kuno

Senior Member

01-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CerealBoxOfDoom View Post
I dont want a tank that does things for itself to be honest lol. She can do plenty as AP or AD I guess but I personally am really not interested in tanks designed to go solo.
So you're not interested in Amumu, Nautilus, Alistar, Shen, Maokai, Sejuani, Rammus or any other tank in the game then. Since every other tank (and champion for that matter) has the ability to function solo to their optimal potential except for Leona.

Quote:
and malphite is a fighter, not a tank. Not even a fair comparison
Malphite is a tank due to his mechanics (passive scaling off max health and Ground Slam scaling off armor). If you're going by the tags on the champion page, those are horrendously inaccurate in many many cases. It has Morgana and Lux listed as supports despite being among the more powerful AP's solely on the basis of them having shields. Yet it doesn't tag Orriana as a Support when she also has a targeted shield and even more team support utility than either Morg or Lux. Pantheon is listed as an assassin. Amumu, Trundle and Udyr are NOT listed as Junglers.

You can't really use the "official" role tags for much of anything since they range from moderately inaccurate to wildly wrong and are in general inconsistently applied.


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Afael

Senior Member

01-04-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CerealBoxOfDoom View Post
I dont want a tank that does things for itself to be honest lol. She can do plenty as AP or AD I guess but I personally am really not interested in tanks designed to go solo.

and malphite is a fighter, not a tank. Not even a fair comparison
Leona can't be build into AP or AD. Her scalings are pretty terrible and building AD just doesn't seem to work.
I understand your point, but most tanks do have damage output beyond their utility. Nautilus is probably best example - he packs more CC than any other champ, but his AP-tank build deals quite a lot of damage, for how hard he is to kill himself.


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Keitterman

Senior Member

01-04-2013

On the plus side, Leona is one of the few tanks that is never banned, so maybe being kinda gimpy is helping her? i mean, at 20% chosen, that's gotta be one of the highest played %'s she's ever seen, and is played far more than all those other tanks that are banned.

I mean, be careful what you ask for. If she was brough to the standard of the other tanks, it wouldn't mean you would get to play her, it would mean you would get to play one of the wildcards that are normally banned when they run out of tanks to ban.