Popular Twitch rune question answer.

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Lawful

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Senior Member

08-21-2010

So after several dozen games i've found out..

The answer to the popular question:
-Yes Crit rate is ALOT more efficient for Twitch rather than Armor Penetration.


I've experienced alot of games with the following rune sets:
1) Marks - penetration , seals - critical rate, - glyphs - cooldown and critical rate
2) Marks - critical rate, seals - critical rage, - glyphs cooldown and critical rate

And i've seen huge difference in general game play and performance, the early game critical rate matters alot more than the penetration.
The reason is - cause even if you do penentrate those 10% defense with that 18 ArPen, it won't give you enough of a impact because your damage is low, you deal 50~60 per shot at first and it slowly starts going up as you level. So the difference between having 18 ArPen and 10% more critical rate at the very start is very substantial!

With 10% more rate and a glove for example - your crit rate would be 25% and thats every fourth hit being a critical by logics but it doesn't work that way!!
Generally having 25% crit is alot more valuable of a cause in LoL, with 10% chance, you can land several successful gamble hits in a row.

So those 25% often turn into 2~4 consecutive critical shots that give you a huge advantage early game that Twitch so much needs, that allows you to grab more of those first kills and feed yourself and at that point, either the difference that you have 10% crit rate more or less and have more AR - Becomes irrelevant! Because you got fed and thats what Twitch is all about, your early game matters alot more than the mathematical values of whats better or what not in the long run, so keep that in mind - cause you can buy that extra PEN for gold in the game but you can't buy advantage over others as easy.


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Lawful

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08-21-2010

Nope, filling makrs with ArPen works alot less effective, i've played dozen of games with both sets and critical rate sets turn out in alot better results over the whole game.
Cases that happen to give you 3-4 critical hit are often, in every game and actually in every fight mostly, you hit minions inbetween and don't care much for critical rate but when it comes down to engaging someone or harassing with 1-2 shots, those 25% critical rate really show themselves.

The difference between having 50% crit rate and 60% critical rate with IE is fenomenal, i'll be honest - its huge and those 18 ArPen will not give you in the least a similar effect.

You might believe me or not, but like i really care, all i had to say was said and my personal experience and opinion was exposed, use them runes as you see fi tho.

I find it amusing tho, you people are like a horde of sheep, you go with the public opinion thats been beat into your heads continuously by the older players and has left a imprint as if what was earlier, is still set in stone, while its not, LoL changed a bit and so did guides, they got outdated and information got old and inaccurate.

I'm sharing with this as a experienced player thats progressed from the standart point of the view that was set in stone and have a deeper insight of the situation than most of the players that think they do too.


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Silent Reaper

Senior Member

08-21-2010

Attack Speed Also works on Twitch too for early levels...


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Naesala

Senior Member

08-21-2010

I got to agree with you, it's like hell to meet someone who got crit chance runes, early game. Only champions who can hit repeatidly quick and deal decent damage each hit works great with armor penetration (pointing at Garen, early game).

18 armor penetration would probably win in the lengh but you only got a few secounds to attack as twicth therefor it's often better to rely at crit chance. Late game 18 armor penetration would maybe be alot more usefull against their squishies (combined with the ghostblade they almost got 0 armor if they didn't pick up any armor item) however twicth needs to get fed early game, so I would rather pick crit runes for that reason alone.


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Rudeboymike

Senior Member

08-21-2010

Just to let you know, your personal experience with something doesn't make it the answer. it makes it your personal experience.

Now, I do agree with you on liking crit chance over armor pen. Armor pen i believe offers better sustained damage, but that can become predictable. Crit on the other hand is not predictable. Sure you may lose a few kills, but you will make more gank opportunities happen with the element of surprise.


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Lawful

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08-21-2010

The fact that its Law's personal opinion - makes it the answer.


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Lawful

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08-22-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
no, you're mostly wrong. i've done the math for other twitch players before, and i'll break it down for you so you can follow.

-you get ~8% crit rate from marks, which is an 8% increase in damage.
-for armor penetration marks to be better than crit marks, that 18 a.pen has to reduce their damage reduction by ~7.5% or more.
-so, the breaking point is 63 armor. if your target has 63 armor or less (after all other forms of armor reduction and flat armor penetration) then armor penetration marks are better.
-if you add in an infinity edge and the offensive talent for the crit damage, then the break point becomes 60 armor (after reduction and other flat penetration).

most champions start with ~20 base armor and end up with an average of 75-85 give or take depending on the champion. so, if you never get any other penetration (including the 6 from offense, a.pen quints, reduction from a stark's aura, improved exhaust, or a champion's skill) then a.pen marks are better until about level 13 or so (depending on the champ) if they don't build armor.

but, you should be getting other sources of armor penetration/reduction, so a.pen should be better the entire game for the targets you care most about killing--their damage dealers.

your argument for crit chance marks being better works only after the game has gone on long enough, and if you're okay with the other team reducing your damage significantly. i'll say that again with different wording to make it clear:

crit chance is only better if your damage being greatly reduced.

if you're doing more damage with crit chance runes, you're either lucky, building poorly, focusing the tanks, or some combination of the three.
You've done the maths for Twitch players before, i'd like to ask what kind of maths, since i've replied in all the more or less serious threads with calculations with huge essays about arpen vs crit on Twitch and i can't remember your name...didn't stand out maybe or you were just full of **** <3

9% rate from Runes by far surpasses 18 ArPen in 80% of the game scenarios, maths have been done by me for different scenarios and its still better to rely on crit rate than a bit of extra standart damage.

In the end, your just one more out of those insignificant people from the crowd that have the popular belief imprinted into them.
Also you didn't provide much mathematical equations to back up your opinion, thus its a bit irrelevant.


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Xalerwons

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08-22-2010

Armor penetration is better against competent players.

OP is emphasizing that statistically, you're bound to get double or triple crits from the added crit chance from crit marks. And that will get you a kill/first blood most of the time. At least against the majority of players and lane comps.


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Lawful

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08-22-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xalerwons View Post
Armor penetration is better against competent players.

OP is emphasizing that statistically, you're bound to get double or triple crits from the added crit chance from crit marks. And that will get you a kill/first blood most of the time. At least against the majority of players and lane comps.
Exactly, and first few bloods are what matters most for a Twitch player.
If you can't get them, props are you'll be semi gimped until mid game where you've farmed enough and you can afford a IE and start to catch up to everyone else.

Remember, this thread isn't about ArPen vs Crit chance on any champion, its specifically made for Twitches.


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Lawful

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08-22-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
oh, wait--do you not know how damage reduction works? like, you don't know how armor affects damage done to a target? that explains a lot, actually.

if you want to calculate how much damage reduction you'll gain from a specific amount of armor, use the formula:
(100 / 100 + x)
where x is your armor rating.
that will give you your damage reduction value for that damage type, not including damage reduction from sources like leviathan or poppy's passive.

flat armor penetration will negate your target's armor value for the purposes of damage reduction calculation on a 1:1 ratio. so, if you have 18 armor penetration and your target has 33 armor, you calculate their armor as 15 in the above formula.

is there anything else you're not clear on? like, how to figure out average damage output increase based on crit chance versus armor penetration--or do you follow now? just let me know the stuff that you don't get and i can explain it in detail for you.
The formula is actually 100: (x+100), not the other way around, i wouldn't be surprised that your calculations were off if you were using the one you provided. Its a basics you know, but i'm just making sure, you do know that dividing comes first and addition/reduction comes last right? Without provided correct brackets that you displayed, you'll come out with 1+x all the time.

And oh jeez, hes looking down on a person thats a math freak, tally-hoo, carry on, maybe for some mid schoolers you viewpoint would be interesting.

Point still stands firm for people that know what i'm talking about, crit runs over pen runes on Twitch.