Kill Streak Rewards

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SylianEUW

Senior Member

05-29-2014

On Summoner's Rift, the base value for a kill is 300. After you've scored one kill, it increases to 360. After you've scored two kills in a row, 432. Three kills and more, 500 gold. That's an increase of about 66.7%, less than double.

On Dominion, the base value of a kill is 100, and while I cannot find any number on how it progresses, I know that the maximum is 400. That's four times as much gold! Keep in mind that this person has had a kill streak for a while, and chances are they killed someone who had died a few times in a row, so they might not even have gotten 100 gold per kill! If someone gets 7 kills in a row, and then they die once, why should their 7 kills not give a significant higher gold advantage over that lone kill? If you add an assist, that gold suddenly increases to 600.

My suggestion: Adjust kill streak rates for Dominion. Cap it at 200-300 gold, and adjust the values overall. Dominion is very different from SR; in SR, someone with a great kill streak is likely to be fed and will thus be harder to kill. In Dominion, the person with the kill streak will have a slight advantage, but it's much smaller than on SR. Three regular Dominion kills equal one SR kill, yet on Dominion, shut down value increases much faster compared to the base value. One common shut down value seems to be 287 gold, which is nearly three times the base value. On SR, the maximum shut down value is less that twice.

So, yeah. Removing this would reward people who manage to score plenty of kills without dying, it would reduce some arbitrary unintuitive comeback mechanics, and it would make the game mode feel slightly better to play, and easier for SR players to get into. Being punished for doing well feels bad, and a kill giving 600 gold with an assist isn't what Dominion should be about.

tl;dr - Dominion kill streak cap is 400 gold, while the base value for a kill is 100. SR kill streak cap is 500, while the base value is 300. The Dominion kill streak is too proportionally big.


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FDru

Senior Member

05-29-2014

It's better the way it works in Dominion. Low kill reward but higher shutdown reward makes more sense than the opposite.

And did you know that shutdowns used to go up to 1000 in SR?


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SylianEUW

Senior Member

05-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by FDru View Post
It's better the way it works in Dominion. Low kill reward but higher shutdown reward makes more sense than the opposite.
Why? It makes it feel unrewarding to get a high kill streak. If you get 5 kills in a row, they shouldn't catch up in gold after just 1 kill (or something like that, depending on the circumstances). The values are off compared to the base values. I believe on SR, they increase by around 20% in value per kill, or something like that. Could make the gold value increase 30% on Dom, and cap it?

Quote:
And did you know that shutdowns used to go up to 1000 in SR?
Yes, and it was stupid, so they removed it.


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The Fizznity

Senior Member

05-29-2014

Maybe tweak the progression but I like the high maximum. Someone snowballing that hard getting shut down returns the gold he was farming.

The real travesty is the fact kills still reward gobs of XP.


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Koravel

Senior Member

05-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fizznity View Post
Maybe tweak the progression but I like the high maximum. Someone snowballing that hard getting shut down returns the gold he was farming.

The real travesty is the fact kills still reward gobs of XP.
The real travesty is that people think kills shouldn't reward gobs of XP.


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Romantic Metro

Senior Member

05-29-2014

Gonna agree with Koravel on this one. Anti-snowball mechanics already are in place. We shouldn't penalize someone for killing and not dying. If you don't get much of a gold increase then you should get gobs of XP at least.


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The Fizznity

Senior Member

05-29-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koravel View Post
The real travesty is that people think kills shouldn't reward gobs of XP.
I have *never* heard a valid argument for keeping it (beyond "it takes work to remove it")

Quote:
Originally Posted by Romantic Metro View Post
Gonna agree with Koravel on this one. Anti-snowball mechanics already are in place. We shouldn't penalize someone for killing and not dying. If you don't get much of a gold increase then you should get gobs of XP at least.
The problem is you aren't actually penalizing players in the end if they don't get a lot of XP from getting a kill. Relative penalty compared to prepatch, sure, but the net result is just less of a reward.

Snowballing is a mindset that should remain on SR IMO. Dominion is about being good across the entire game, not coasting to victory on a few early successful fights. Which Dominion is not about, but XP rewards on kill *do* heavily tilt botlane matchups after 2-3 kills and can exacerbate outmatched toplane teams into a 7-10m loss.

Removing active sources of snowballing is also subtly but importantly different from adding anti-snowballing (which i am also against).


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SylianEUW

Senior Member

05-30-2014

Can we drop the xp thing? If you think it's important, start a new thread about it? My own answer is that they probably should decrease the xp value of kills, in order to reduce snowballing, especially in bot lane. Still, I don't feel that snowballing is currently much of an issue, it might be bot lane, but you can often counter-act that by ganking, unless the bot lane feeds over and over again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fizznity
Someone snowballing that hard getting shut down returns the gold he was farming.
Generally, it doesn't necessarily mean that someone is snowballing.

If Riot is worried about snowballing, reducing minion gold would be a far better alternative than having this rubber-band kill streak system. A kill streak reward of 1000 gold felt bad on SR, and 400 feels bad on Dominion. It should be toned down.


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Genericke

Senior Member

05-30-2014

I've never really felt it, regardless of which end of the kill streak I was on. It doesn't feel bad to me.


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SylianEUW

Senior Member

05-30-2014

Interesting. Are you paying attention to the kill streak gold announcements in the chat log?


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