Low ELO support advice needed.

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midillusion

Senior Member

06-20-2012

Quote:
You, sir, scare me.
Haha, was it the puppetmaster metaphor? Regardless I should probably add that this is a smurf I am posting on. My main is on the EU server, which is at 1400 ELO where I main supports.

Quote:
I just don't believe that. I play support Leona ranked duo queue with one friend primarily. When I tried to do a normal game support with a different friend (who's nowhere near as good), we got slaughtered twice in a row because he ran into melee range of me, got focused, and never ran away. He was playing Graves, and no he wasn't using buckshot either.
I had a similar experience some time ago. I used to duo with a friend of mine who was 1600 ELO support/AD carry. I would support for him and we won every lane we came across. Then I went into solo ranked at 1400 and the AD carries I was with were nothing like him. However, I realised it was more my fault, because I was used to playing with a guy who I had played with since I was level 15, and he knew everything I was going to do without me having to tell him anything.

All I had to do was adapt to the less skilled AD carries I was with in solo queue, and I had no more issues with them. Just as a simple example, when I played with my friend, when I initiated a fight he was always there right beside me, and I never had to tell him when to go. When I moved, so did he. The AD carries I had in solo queue didn't do this, so instead I had to ping the target before I went in before they followed, but once they realise that a ping in a target means you go for it, they get the idea and do what you want them to do.

Granted, there is some stuff that you will only be able to do with a very good AD carry that you know and trust. If you look at one of the bot laners from the top teams, like Candypanda and Nyph, in ranked they can get away with some really crazy ****. But that doesn't mean you cannot play with someone less skilled, you just have to know how much you can get away with.


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captainquinine

Junior Member

06-20-2012

I also play a low ELO support (generally Soraka) and I have serious reservations about being able to support your way out of ELO hell. Too much of the lane depends on your partner's behavior, regardless of how well you play. I've had games where the ad carry and I harass like crazy and roll bottom, and I've had games where my partner tries to harass a kill lane on 150 health.

I don't have any other advice than to play a different position. I seem to win a lot more when I play mid.


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midillusion

Senior Member

06-20-2012

Yes, there is some trust and cooperation required (it is a team game after all) but what a lot lower level players don't understand is that it is the support who decides the out-come of the lane, not the AD carry. Lanes are won and lost by lane control and ganks, and these 2 aspects are controlled by the support. It is the support who defends the lane from ganks, it is the support who controls the lane by controlling the outer-bushes with wards. All the AD carry does is farm and add their firepower to the supports when they fight, but it is always the support who initiates those fights.

What annoys me is that at the end of the match, players look at the scores and see the AD carry has gone 5/0/10 of whatever and all they say is "well done carry, good job there. We couldn't have won without you." When the fact is that without the support player, the AD carry would never have got those scores. Do we ever get a thank you for it? Nope.

/end rant.


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Kirielis

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Senior Member

06-20-2012

Actually, the lane can be lost by the ADC if he doesn't farm properly, or at all. I've met some who autopush the lane. And if the ADC is bad at farming, well, you really have to make sure the other guy is really far behind, and even then your ADC might have lost you the lane by not farming.


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Absolute Loss

Member

06-20-2012

thanks for the advice it gives me alot to start thinking about and a new perspective on my gameplay. i heard that supports buy oracles when they are losing lane and jungler buys oracle if you are winning. what time should i buy oracles? any advice with items my standard build is as many gp5's before 15 mins ( i always grab 2 regardless) normally if im duo i get starks first if my duo partner wants that lifesteal. should i not be doing this and rushing that aegis? when is a good time to get shurelias? or that locket? or aegis? what factors should i consider when thinking about my "first" big item. does the champ i have selected effect this? like if i picked leona over soraka?


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SovietBlade

Senior Member

06-20-2012

Supports CAN carry games; but 0cs supports can't. Or at least it's outrageously difficult to do.
Support kayle can do work if her carry is bad; her ult gives a single ally immunity to all damage [including herself if need be] and she can throw some big hits herself.

Soraka CAN win a teamfight by silencing a superfed AP carry before they can burst.
But if your team doesn't jump on the AP carry and melt them; soraka may as well have not been there.
Soraka can also give an armor buff, a giant heal, and a global heal, she's NOT insignificant in the slightest.

But if the people she's buffing or healing are dumb... well... it's GG for you in favor of the enemy team :\


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FaerellG

Senior Member

06-20-2012

what time should i buy oracles?
When you notice that your opponents are warding heavily and you need to clear wards in more than one location. Or if there are stealth champions.
Also don't buy oracles if you're dying a lot, you'll just end up wasting 400g. All factors that you should be considering.
Sometimes, it's best for your tank or your jungler to buy oracles.

In fact, tanks with Oracles are awesome, because it gives the opponent more reason to focus them.

any advice with items my standard build is as many gp5's before 15 mins ( i always grab 2 regardless) normally if im duo i get starks first if my duo partner wants that lifesteal. should i not be doing this and rushing that aegis?
I tend to rush that Philo stone asap. Prioritized over boots even.
Philo gives you much needed mana and health sustain. Having health regen means you can save mana by not needing to heal yourself.
Next is Kage's pick or HoG. Pick it up based on whether you need more AP for bigger heal or if you need more HP just to survive.
Boots should be bought before your 2nd item though (don't have to upgrade it yet)

I suppose if the team is doing really well and I'm getting tons of assists, I may feel that I don't need the extra gold per 10 and instead go for the aura items.

when is a good time to get shurelias?
This depends. You want to hold onto philo for the gold per 10 so I tend to upgrade it late. However, if my team has an initiator that relies on speed to run in and disrupt (skarnar, udyr, singed), then I'll end up upgrading to Shurelia's as soon as teamfights start erupting.

or that locket?
Can't honestly say. I under-rate that item a lot. I often don't get it.

or aegis?
As soon as you can afford it really. It's best to have 1 or 2 gold per 10 items first.

what factors should i consider when thinking about my "first" big item. does the champ i have selected effect this?
The answer is always "what does the team need more of?"
Your champion definitely matters too.

like if i picked leona over soraka?
Leona might want a Randuin's or Frozen Heart whereas Soraka would probably prefer a Rylai's or Abyssal.


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Absolute Loss

Member

06-20-2012

any tips on good lane combos? like what supports should i play with what ad carries?


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BBFSmokedCayenne

Senior Member

06-20-2012

whenever I'm tired of losing bot lane due to terrible AD carries that never-endingly AA minions, over-extend, push, ignore MIAs, etc, I just take rumble, urgot or yorick and go solotop. I pubstomp like 75% of the time, I suggest you try it out. The other path is jungling, since with certain champs (shaco, fid, chogath) they can jungle independantly without a leash/dmg on wolves.

Mid is a bad idea, though. theres a higher chance of you getting ganked, and with bad teammates, you can bet they're not gonna call mia. You could apply that to going solotop, but there is less of a chance of you getting ganked, and if youre playing top correctly, you are staying far back and denying those ganks. I'd say more about top related stuff, but I dunno if you care about this top idea or not.

as for bot-lane matchups, its really only limited to what you can conjure up, but countering the enemy with leona works great. the enemy AD initiates? you jump on them and they stop dead in their tracks. it also opens up more champ choices for your jungler, since he won't have to be a tank jungler if he doesnt want to, but like i said bot match-ups can easily be invented by yourself, analyze the champs, see what works best, simple enough

and locket of the iron solari is a nice midgame item in my opinion. Lategame it can just be sold or used to grant that bit of shield which can save a teammate from darius's hemorrhage or some other DoT effect. You need to be very observative and alert to pull that off, though, so its worth practicing. I personally almost always get the locket. grants some strong defense if you buy it before teamfights/while you are still laning, which is where it really shines. you might say most champs already have a shield ability or even a heal, but those are limited to cooldown and probably mana, so its nice to have this easy access shield to save the enemy from any DoT which might otherwise get a kill after the dust has settled from a teamfight.

but yeah, just my thoughts. im in no way as good a support as some of the others on this thread, but I'll still toss out my amateur opinion.


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midillusion

Senior Member

06-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Let Me Support View Post
any tips on good lane combos? like what supports should i play with what ad carries?
Most combos for bot lane will work as long depending on what you want to do in the lane and who you are facing. The exceptions are Ashe and Kogmaw, who are too weak early on and have no burst to make a decent kill lane, so putting them with a really aggressive support like Blitz, Leona or Alistar is kind of pointless. Apart from that, pretty much anything else goes.

Just make sure you discuss during champ select with your AD carry on whether you want to be an aggressive or passive laning phase, and pick your support based on that.


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