@Guinsoo mainly... maybe Pendragon.

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Prosecutor Godot

Senior Member

08-27-2010

I kinda agree with OP... LoL has yet to impress me technically.

On the other hand, it's really a shame that Blitzcrank's hook is much shorter than Pudge's, or at least it feels much, much shorter.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Cheems

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

08-27-2010

LoL is starting to improve and I was greatly impressed with Akali as she brought a whole new playstyle to the genre, something like a micro-intensive assassin. I wasn't overly impressed with Xin Zhao and Urgot to be honest.

Let's just study the VERY recycled stack building attack that Xin Zhao had in Three Talon Strike. It's used on many heroes already and although it suits Xin quite well, it's repetitive I guess; Yi, TF, Jax, Annie (Pyromania), Ezreal, Nunu, Corki (Missle Barrage), Pantheon, Twitch, Kennen, Tryndamere and Xin Zhao all have scaling attack skills and some are blatantly similar (TF/Yi/Kennen/Jax/Xin Zhao) whereas some bring a slight difference such as Pantheon getting Aegis and Twitch getting stronger Expunge casts.

Urgot has a skill that is widely popular and known to the MOBA community for about 7 years (Vengeful never changed her ultimate in all that time, can you imagine that?) and all Urgot got was an extra stun/slow. I'm not saying we can't copy DotA for ideas or that once DotA/HoN/LoL have a good idea no other game can steal it but we need something exciting to rival the other games once in a while.

Look at the last DotA patch for instance. IceFrog created 4 new heroes that are all pretty unique and have never been seen or concieved before.

I do hope Guinsoo reads this by the way, I typed @Guinsoo in the title so he should know about it in his mail right?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Prosecutor Godot

Senior Member

08-27-2010

How is Akali micro intense?

I don't see it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

NinjainSpandex

Senior Member

08-27-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by solarcow View Post
Here are a rundown of mechanics in LoL that are improbable to implement in dota:

1. Cooldown Reduction - already mentioned i think, there is no scripts for this, the only way you can possibly implement this is to make multiple instances(or levels) of a single skill with different cooldowns and make a function that calculates CDR of items then replace the skills accordingly.

2. Deal (attack damage + modifier X) - WC3 engine doesnt really calculate your current attack damage + modifiers, you need additional scripts for this or a work around such as calculating a damage (when you hit a unit, after not before). Another way is creating a dummy copy unit with the same stats as your unit and making it manually attack the target.

3. Magic Resistance and Armor - WC3 engine uses a common armor for all damage types, with additional type checking to apply further reduction against certain damage types on certain armor. LOL has separated both damage types so you can have stacking armor and MR and each having a different %calculation AND can apply penetrations and MR reductions. This can be implemented in WC3 if you were to have dummy items, a function that calculates magic %resist and dummy abilities that give you that specific %resist independent of the common armor.

4. Slow Immunity (Yi) - Wc3 engine only recognizes spell immunity as an immunity to ALL abilities cast, it cannot distinguish whatever buff it has to apply outside of you creating a function that checks every .1second if the target with slow immunity is slowed then remove the buffs manually as well as reset the object's affected speed.

5. Disable Immunity (Olaf) - Likewise, Wc3 immunity is immunity to ALL abilities cast, it does not single out damage, stuns, sleeps, etc. A work around can be done but is much more tedious since you will have to make every spell a custom trigger spell so you can check before applying disables unlike the normal spells that apply disables with no condition outside of spell immunity.

6. Urgot's cursor Targeting System - I have yet to see a function in Wc3 made for the cursor to check which unit is highlighted(not clicked).

7. Stacking Stats - since each stat in LOL is individualized it is easier to stack them and maybe create mathematical functions that give reduced returns as more stats is stacked. This is difficult in Wc3 since stats such as lifesteal is aura based and spell vamp (if ever) would be a custom function.

8. Damage Type Check - The common event used in Wc3 is "When a unit takes damage", then you can add any effect you want but this does not discriminate which damage type is applied. For example, if I were to create spell vamp, i would use that event and apply a percentage of the damage dealt as heal for the damage dealer. It would not recognize the difference of an auto attack damage and a spell damage hence I would get a global damage vamp.

9. Morde's shield - this one is a bit tricky, it cant be done in Wc3 because there is no way to tell what damage comes from Morde's spells, but turning that into a temporary shield can be done easily.

10. Healing - this one is handled very differently in LOL while in Wc3 it can just be a simple trigger to add hp or deal a negative damage. Since healing is not specific, things such as %increased heals and %decrease to heals received is not do-able in the Wc3 engine.

this is all i can think of at the moment, when i think of hon, one mechanic that cant be done in Wc3 is Dark Lady's ultimate, removing all visions of allies. Then again it can probably be done by adjusting all alliances to allied but w/o shared vision. Anyways, HoN doesnt really bring much in terms of breaking engine limits to the genre, LoL only beats is by a very little margin. I hope to see progress from both that can make me say, howthe****doIdothatinWc3?!
OP is saying stuff from DotA should be implemented into LoL, not what you just posted. Just like Bughferds thread, hes saying more interesting and unique spells and champions need to be introduced into LoL.

Red's counter to this is that it's not noob friendly......my reply is then, whats the point of the death recap...?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Cheems

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

08-27-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prosecutor Godot View Post
How is Akali micro intense?

I don't see it.
How is she not? She has 4 active skills that average 2-4 seconds cooldown and she has to balance attacking WITH SKILLS (different from right click champions), positioning and escaping. It gets more complicated when you consider items like Sheen procs and her limited energy pool.

I have never tried HoN so I can't comment there but which hero in DotA do you know that is mildly similar? As I said, probably Invoker with Aghanims but that's not the same.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Madman Reborn

Senior Member

08-27-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheems View Post
Hai2u!

I remember reading a while back from Pendragon I believe, that one of the selling points of LoL from DotA was that it was not bound to the same engine used to create all WC3 maps (World Editor.exe) and as such they have more creative flexibility in gameplay.

I'm just curious as I've been playing LoL for about a year now and I have yet to see some impressive standout and flashy skills that are difficult if not impossible to implement in a DotA map.

I was very impressed by Guinsoo back in DotA 5.84c when he implemented skills such as Morphling's Spellsteal, Vengeful's Netherswap, Pudge 2.0's Meat Hook and Juggernaut's Omnislash but from LoL, I have yet to see anything that cannot be immediately replicated in a WC3 engine. From what I can see so far, the LoL editor (if there is one, I assume you use some sort of code or language to create new abilities and pair them with a skin) is pretty ... simple. You don't see skills similar to Chronoshift (Faceless Void) or Fissure (Earthshaker) in terms of visual effects and difficulty to implement and although there are alot of original skills (Galio's Wind Skill, Veigar's Event Horizon and Anivia's Ice Wall) the rest are pretty much recycled skills.

I don't mean champions such as Nidalee or Akali where they are in a new class of playstyle on their own and demand a level of control not immediately found in DotA (maybe Invoker) but really, when it comes down to it; would you say that the DotA community is better at making "cool" heroes/champions?

Especially since SC2 unveiled it's editor at E3 recently and the development of the new DotA for SC2 (SotIS) it just makes LoL look completely outshined and outclassed like a DotA wannabe when in actuality it's much more then that!

Lest it be known that this is anti-LoL bs thread, I'm a dedicated LoL player who has reached LVL 24 on a smurf with 0 zero wins (Have a LVL 30 account too). 6 practise games a day for 4 months.
What i think that what Pendragon meant is the following. LoL has the capability of matchmaking system, build in ladder, different map dynamicc etc. All things that weren't possible with dota. If you wanted to ladder with dota you had to join a league based on a website that would then, with a limited MM system make a game you had to create yourself, assuming there was a host. This in fact is the only reason why I play LoL over Dota. Few clicks for a semi descent game and let's face it, a lot less leavers. For a nice game of dota you first had to sift through pages of games and then wait till it filled up. The only thing I miss about that are the gamemodes..

Anywho, strengts of LoL-engine over WC-engine = not the skills but the game making abilities.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

PsiRedEye22

Senior Member

08-27-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voodoolounge View Post
In my opinion, too the last couple of heroes were quite amazing heroes. Not a lot of people have played urgot, but his playstile is quite innovative
Not as much as you might think. He really is pretty much Vengeful Spirit. His poison cask is a lot like Wave of Terror, His ult is practically identical with a ranged stun mixed in which mirrors her first ability, and his shield is pretty much worse than Venge's damage aura.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Horpum

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Member

08-27-2010

I played bout 500 games of LoL, all with humans, many with full premade. I also played five DotA games, all with bots (I don't own w3, so no games over the net). There is only one question: why. the. hell. would ANYONE want to play LoL if he started with DotA?
LoL has around 15-20 heroes. The rest are blatant copies of eachother. Why can't they implement interesting skills? Because of GRIEFING? Give me a break. I want to run someone's game, I can pick Eve and do nothing but feed all game.I can pick Kog and /joke all game. Why are the bans here when I can ban Eve and Sivir? Some abilities are called not noob friendly. And that is a joke too. You either want to have a competetive game that has deep gameplay, or a game that every console ****** can play and which is also dull and boring. You want to make LoL newbie friendly? Make a god**** tutorial, not a pitiful excuse for saying "there will be a tutorial for new players" which is what the current one is. You already have death recap and tips on how to play. You can add tips on team composition to champion selection screen. You can add grouping heroes by roles they can fill. You can add more recommended items, with possibility to choose what kind of build you want to have. Add better descriptions to the shop. Add individual tooltips in the shop for every champion. Get the tips on playing as/against on website.
OR
Delete all characters but Ryze, Amumu, Ashe, Zilean, Xin'Zhao. Delete all items but longsword, dagger, sapphire crystal, ruby crystal, meki pendant, rejuvenation beads, amplifying tome but add upgrades to each one, making it give more of its stat. There you have it, a noob friendly game.

Only reason why LoL was picked over HoN for WCG is that HoN is DotA on another engine.I can't see any future in competetive LoL if Riot will do nothing but sit on their asses, mashing different hero spells together and calling it "new champion". Where are replays? Where is a proper, working client? Why is the shop a website when it should be a menu? Where is stability? Where are interesting mastery trees?

Yeah. that's about it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

PsiRedEye22

Senior Member

08-27-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheems View Post
I have never tried HoN so I can't comment there but which hero in DotA do you know that is mildly similar? As I said, probably Invoker with Aghanims but that's not the same.
Easy. My main hero in DotA, Chen, who runs Necronomicon.