@Guinsoo mainly... maybe Pendragon.

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EIometer

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Senior Member

08-27-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by boni View Post
Correct. It's an ENGINE comparison. Guess what engine has STR, INT and AGI and which one doesn't. :3
I realize that, and STR, INT, and AGI have nothing to do with the potential of this current game engine. The stat method is irrelevant. What is relevent is Riot's ability to implement new and innovative skills that could not be recreated in DoTA.


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boni

Senior Member

08-27-2010

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I remember reading a while back from Pendragon I believe, that one of the selling points of LoL from DotA was that it was not bound to the same engine used to create all WC3 maps (World Editor.exe) and as such they have more creative flexibility in gameplay.
I don't see a single mention of "skills" in that sentence.
The WC3 Engine/Editor is very powerful, and I guess you can implement about any skill you want with some workarounds.


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Cheems

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08-27-2010

Stats really have very little to do with the engine itself and more on the gameplay of it. If you think about it, stats are actually combined effects of other stats: STR gives you HP and HP regeneration, AGI gives you Attack Speed and INT gives you mana and mana regeneration and of course damage if it is your primary stat.

As far as I know, dodge exists in DotA as well as does Magic Resist (to a lesser degree). Some heroes have abilities that scale with "AP" such as Pudge's Flesh Heap.

Your point is actually counter intuitive because I'm sure it is very possible to have scaling cooldown reductions based on items or skills in Wc3 whereas it would be a very large overhaul to do so in LoL.


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PsiRedEye22

Senior Member

08-27-2010

I main Ophelia in HoN and Chen in DotA. I would love to roflstomp a team with my elite retinue of Golem and Lizard elders. Implement this immediately.


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solarcow

Member

08-27-2010

Here are a rundown of mechanics in LoL that are improbable to implement in dota:

1. Cooldown Reduction - already mentioned i think, there is no scripts for this, the only way you can possibly implement this is to make multiple instances(or levels) of a single skill with different cooldowns and make a function that calculates CDR of items then replace the skills accordingly.

2. Deal (attack damage + modifier X) - WC3 engine doesnt really calculate your current attack damage + modifiers, you need additional scripts for this or a work around such as calculating a damage (when you hit a unit, after not before). Another way is creating a dummy copy unit with the same stats as your unit and making it manually attack the target.

3. Magic Resistance and Armor - WC3 engine uses a common armor for all damage types, with additional type checking to apply further reduction against certain damage types on certain armor. LOL has separated both damage types so you can have stacking armor and MR and each having a different %calculation AND can apply penetrations and MR reductions. This can be implemented in WC3 if you were to have dummy items, a function that calculates magic %resist and dummy abilities that give you that specific %resist independent of the common armor.

4. Slow Immunity (Yi) - Wc3 engine only recognizes spell immunity as an immunity to ALL abilities cast, it cannot distinguish whatever buff it has to apply outside of you creating a function that checks every .1second if the target with slow immunity is slowed then remove the buffs manually as well as reset the object's affected speed.

5. Disable Immunity (Olaf) - Likewise, Wc3 immunity is immunity to ALL abilities cast, it does not single out damage, stuns, sleeps, etc. A work around can be done but is much more tedious since you will have to make every spell a custom trigger spell so you can check before applying disables unlike the normal spells that apply disables with no condition outside of spell immunity.

6. Urgot's cursor Targeting System - I have yet to see a function in Wc3 made for the cursor to check which unit is highlighted(not clicked).

7. Stacking Stats - since each stat in LOL is individualized it is easier to stack them and maybe create mathematical functions that give reduced returns as more stats is stacked. This is difficult in Wc3 since stats such as lifesteal is aura based and spell vamp (if ever) would be a custom function.

8. Damage Type Check - The common event used in Wc3 is "When a unit takes damage", then you can add any effect you want but this does not discriminate which damage type is applied. For example, if I were to create spell vamp, i would use that event and apply a percentage of the damage dealt as heal for the damage dealer. It would not recognize the difference of an auto attack damage and a spell damage hence I would get a global damage vamp.

9. Morde's shield - this one is a bit tricky, it cant be done in Wc3 because there is no way to tell what damage comes from Morde's spells, but turning that into a temporary shield can be done easily.

10. Healing - this one is handled very differently in LOL while in Wc3 it can just be a simple trigger to add hp or deal a negative damage. Since healing is not specific, things such as %increased heals and %decrease to heals received is not do-able in the Wc3 engine.

this is all i can think of at the moment, when i think of hon, one mechanic that cant be done in Wc3 is Dark Lady's ultimate, removing all visions of allies. Then again it can probably be done by adjusting all alliances to allied but w/o shared vision. Anyways, HoN doesnt really bring much in terms of breaking engine limits to the genre, LoL only beats is by a very little margin. I hope to see progress from both that can make me say, howthe****doIdothatinWc3?!


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boni

Senior Member

08-27-2010

Wow, huge interesting wall of text. Awesome post. +1

How hard would TFs Stacked Deck/Jax Ult/... or Annies Pyromania be to implement in wc3?


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PsiRedEye22

Senior Member

08-27-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by boni View Post
Wow, huge interesting wall of text. Awesome post. +1

How hard would TFs Stacked Deck/Jax Ult/... or Annies Pyromania be to implement in wc3?
They can't, but HoN had this concept first with Puppet Master. :P


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boni

Senior Member

08-27-2010

..Annie is older than Puppet Master? :I


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KrupsMcGee

Senior Member

08-27-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fronky View Post
They can't do things like that because casual nirds will buy that kind of champion and cry that it doesn't play like Yi. and they will make no profit on it.

imagine faceless voids ult in LoL, and how many nirds wuld cry.

i personally want bloodseekers ult. so i culd own stoped nirdz.

nirds in LoL cant handle things that require think outside of a bOCKS.

they just sit there and stun and aoe. like play garen, then play i dont no, Ophelia in HoN.

ur gona b like. WOWE. Those LoL Nirds dont even Noe how 2 pick there nose.
I downvoted this because I hated it but that was before I realized it was from FRONKY!!! I want to take it back and +1 because Fronky is hilarious.

I like the direction LoL is going. Vlad, Kog'maw, Galio and Urgot were all fantastic additions.


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Voodoolounge

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08-27-2010

In my opinion, too the last couple of heroes were quite amazing heroes. Not a lot of people have played urgot, but his playstile is quite innovative and Vlad Kog'maw and galio were also good heroes which used the engine of LoL very well. I believe that the rioterz did a very good job up to now and they recognise our community well ( not like certain ea games for example). I also believe that they put a lot of love into the new map and dont just want a " new map from the pole" ( german saying^^). What has been said about the damage calculations before is very interesting and if possible I would like to see a hero that has an ablity that is based on the enemy's damage( galio is in the right direction, but rather more on a stat base ). For example as a counter pick to high damage or ability power heroes that have been fed, which would be quite unique i believe