Are Tanks Really the Most Important Thing?

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cooksta

Senior Member

08-26-2010

There's a lot of players who have been filtered down from WoW and other such MMO's, where tanks are an archetype role that (for the most part) needs to be fufilled.

That being said, you don't NEED a tank. My last match, I had one of those just really excellent games where people picked good counters, played well, had good builds, everything really just came together.

We didn't have one tank. We had Xin, who built a lot of damage soaking items, but no "real" tank. The other team had a Singed, an Amumu, Garen, with Ezreal and a Yi.

Needless to say, on paper it would appear the other team would likely win. But honestly, there wasn't one fight where we didn't take out Ezreal and Yi almost instantaneously, and while the other 3 tanks sat at tower and soaked up damage, we would get our TF or WW to go ninja a tower solo.

Eventually they couldn't do anything but defend.

In the end, Tanks aren't neccessary. Sure, in balanced comps, with equal skill and ideal runes, a tank becomes more attractive, but it isn't ESSENTIAL to win games.

The problem remains, and still remains, that people tend to believe that tanks are needed to soak damage, while the good players know you can still kill someone with a minor amount of HP and excellent teamwork.


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Barumel

Senior Member

08-26-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiku View Post
The TF player is good, won a lot of games with him alongside; he did some insane backdooring when the passive remake came along and was broken. My point was that he didn't get to farm his items, which you said they will -always- get to do =3
But, in all fairness, it's an 11 minute game... and TF is squishy, this guy is obviously aware of that.


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neocow

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Senior Member

08-26-2010

You need an iniator for teamfights, instead of walking in one by one to your doom.


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MoarYogurt

Senior Member

08-26-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uccisore View Post
EDIT: See Below.

I'm low Elo.

WHen picking champs, nobody in my games every says "OMG we don't have a healer!" or
"OMG we don't have a melee DPS!" or "OMG we don't have any stuns!" or "OMG no aoe casters!". But people will fight, freak out, and queue dodge over whether or not the team has a tank, and who has to play it.*

.................

I dunno if you are going to read this, but here goes.

The tank position getting down to lower Elo makes sense.

You can win a game without a healer against a team that has one.

You can win a game without a carry against a team that has one.

You almost can't win a game without a tank against a team that has one.

Someone has to stop the big burly guy on their team from getting to your squishy and pooting them back over to the rest of his team. That roll falls to YOUR tank. If you don't have a tank to do that, you can't stop them from destroying you.

Healers, meh. At lower Elos they tend to perform rather badly. I'm not at the highest Elo myself. I see it happen fairly often. Most notably when they don't stay behind their tank.

Nukers, while important, don't win the game. They kill 1 person, maybe 2, and then have to wait for cool downs. They will die if they don't have a tank to stop the other team from getting to them.

DPS heroes are available to be beat on quite handily if they don't have a big meat wall in front of them. You can sense your mortality when you are playing Ashe and there is a gangplank with an IE running around. He WILL kill you if he has ghost. He's just too **** fast, even with your slow. You need something to or someone to either pin him down so you can poop on him, or even just punt him away so you live.

It's the need to feel protected. However it can be boring to do the protecting because you don't often get kills, so it plays out to fighting over who has to tank. It's the most significant role in almost any game. WoW, TF2 (Healing a heavy or whatever it was). Think about other instances. If new people don't know it from experience here, they do know it from experience elsewhere.


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Spiku

Senior Member

08-27-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barumel View Post
But, in all fairness, it's an 11 minute game... and TF is squishy, this guy is obviously aware of that.
He said good players ALWAYS get to farm their core items, our TF didn't get to farm anything =D


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k245

Senior Member

08-27-2010

It's not that you need a tank, it's that all the tools in low-mid elo just pick their favorite high KDR champ first. Then they expect someone else to play tank and absorb the damage for them so they can get all the kills.

It's like playing defender in World Cup soccer. The offense acts like hot ****, dives, and whines like hell, yet expects (and gets) all the glory for the games being won. The defender plays just as vital a role, if not a more vital one, yet gets less of the acclaim for it. It's a thankless, but altogether extremely important job.

Which is why the tools in low-mid elo pick Ashe and Ryze and then tell everyone else to go play a tank,


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Shiny Carnage

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Recruiter

08-27-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uccisore View Post
EDIT: See Below.

I'm low Elo.

WHen picking champs, nobody in my games every says "OMG we don't have a healer!" or
"OMG we don't have a melee DPS!" or "OMG we don't have any stuns!" or "OMG no aoe casters!". But people will fight, freak out, and queue dodge over whether or not the team has a tank, and who has to play it.*

It seems that at my ELO, proper team comp is thought to be "Whatever the hell you want + a tank".

Is this perception legitimate? Are tanks really super important compared to everything else? Or did the importance of tanks just percolate down to the noobs in a way that the importance of other things hasn't?



* I realize tanks are popular right now, so this point is slightly dated.

THE EDIT: People seem to be misunderstanding my question. I know tanks are important, and I think I know the reasons why. What I'm saying is, why are they the ONLY role that seems to be singled out as mandatory in team comp at my level? Carries seem important...how come I never see anyone say "WTF no carry? *queuedodge*"?
People have an inherent apprehension of "dying". They feel more at ease if they aren't the first to actually have to take point, initiate and somtimes take a death for the good of the team.
That is why tanks are perceived as mandatory. Just my opinion.


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Beachdude67

Senior Member

08-27-2010

It isn't that tanks are or are not mandatory. Good team composition, however, is absolutely mandatory unless the skill levels of the players is completely out of whack.


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Vichar

Senior Member

08-27-2010

Interesting opinions in this thread.

In my opinion, it's more important to have a plan when building your team. Winning teams might fall into these general categories:

AOE damage / CC team
hold and split push team

Popular (but effective? dunno) teams might include:
Healing team
Tanky team
"Balanced" team

Thing is, each team needs to be played differently, and each player needs to know their role on their team. A lot of the advice you're seeing in this thread deals with pickup games where you cannot rely upon your teammates. Even if that's true, it's a sad way to play and it's not as fun.

Tanks have an important role on many of these teams, but as the coordination of a team increases, suddenly the reason for certain builds and champs like casters and dps becomes apparent. Also, I notice that people rarely seem to acknowledge that many tanks / beefy fighters are melee... which has certain tactical limtations.


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AAARRRRGGGGGHHHH

Senior Member

08-27-2010

just play more cdr olaf, he fills like a hundred team roles