Alternative twisted fate build, need input.

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Xirus

Senior Member

10-31-2009

Okay, first off, my play style with twisted fate is to teleport between lanes and push. That's pretty much all I do late game, but with the AP build, I'd get to the towers and then be pretty useless at destroying them.

As such, I'm trying a physical attack build.

Items:

Tiamat
Berserker's Greaves
Phantom Dancer
Infinity Edge

I'm not sure what physical damage items would be best for twisted fate, so I've went with some I'm familiar with. My wild card is weak enough that it doesn't one shot minions, but tiamat takes care of that. Should I be getting a brutalizer in there somewhere?

Strategy:
Teleport to a lane, push until I think I'm about to get attacked, teleport to another lane, keep minions near their towers. When I think i can, teleport in, help the minions gank a tower, teleport out. You cannot go 1v1 with anyone using this build, so the movement speed from the items really helps run away if need be. Obviously start running before enemies have a chance to get near you.

I find that people generally end up spending a lot of the game running from location to location trying to stop me from pushing, so I end up pretty much negating them and destroying a few towers. Downside of this build is it's not nearly as good at killing enemy champions, even in conjunction with your friends.

I've played a few games with this build. Most of the games we win, we're down on kills/up on deaths, but we manage to push their towers into oblivion. The ones I've lost, seems like there's not quite enough team cohesion to keep pressure on them elsewhere, so I get targetted. It works quite well in my premades, though.

Champion spells:
Really not sure what to get. Gate is absolutely essential, so I've been putting lots of points in it, so that I can get my 30 second gates quickly, as I never have them as fast as I want, but then I find my other abilities are too low. Suggestions?

Summoner's spells:
-Teleport? I feel dumb taking teleport with twisted fate, but it seems amazing to be able to teleport to a lane, and teleport to a different lane if there were people in the area you missed.
-Clairvoyance? I'm not high enough level for it yet, but a major part of this build is knowing where enemies are, as they'll rip through you.
-Promote? I get the sense people don't approve of this skill, but I find it helps me push a tower, by having a tank that can take more than two hits from a tower.
-Rally? Bonus damage, so the tower goes down faster!
-Heal? You can bring minions back up, as well as save your own life. However, late game, if you need a heal, you're probably dead anyway.
-Flash/ghost/exhaust? Since the strategy is run like hell if you see enemy champions, these all seem quite useful.

Areas I need help with:
Has anyone else tried this? Is it viable at all? It seems to be working well for many of my games so far, although a bit less so with pugs than with my regular group. Are there better items I could be taking? What spells should I go for first? What summoner spells do you think are best, and why?

Is there a way to be better at ganking champions with this sort of build? (still working on remembering to put on a gold card before destiny/gate ganks) Many of the games I play in I get very few kills, but we win. One game in particular I had 300 minion kills in a relatively short game!

Any suggestions on getting gold with this sort of build? Currently I'm working on my skills at last hitting, and if I get kills with this build, it's usually early game combo ganks. Later in the game, the minion kill counts seem to give me as much as I need, but I feel I could improve with gold mid-game. Should I be jungling at all? I assume not, but am open to whatever!


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OuLuvKyanN

Junior Member

11-01-2009

Well I usually play DPS on TF,build is :
Vampiric Scepter
Berserker Greaves
Zeal
Zeal > Phantom Dancer
Phage
Sheen
Zeal,Phage,Sheen > Trinity Force
Infinity Edge
Vampiric Scepter > Bloodthirster

OR AP(half of this build is from Reep's TF guide,so credits to him),build is :
Meki Pendant
Boots
Meki Pendant > Chalice of Harmony
Boots > Sorcerer Boots
Stinger
Mejas Soulstealer
Fiendish Codex,Stinger > Nashor's Tooth
Phage
Sheen
Zeal,Phage,Sheen > Trinity Force
Zhonya's Ring


Just my 2 cents


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Xirus

Senior Member

11-01-2009

Hmmm... Neat. For the DPS build, what's your playstyle? I find myself retreating to base so often that I get my health recharged, but if I had lifesteal, maybe I wouldn't be retreating so often?

How do you find yourself at killing waves of mobs? With a weak wild cards and no tiamat, are you still able to wipe out waves quickly and efficiently?

Cheers for the advice!


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OuLuvKyanN

Junior Member

11-01-2009

I don't use Wild Cards alot,they eat up alot of mana and i dont plan on buying mana regen items for the DPS build,i can gold lock pretty well so..that solves almost everything including harassing and farming,when the enemies get close to creeps,throw a gold card at the creep,the champ will get the damage and stun as well,so u get around 2 or 3 creep gold each time u do this trick.


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Reivur

Senior Member

11-01-2009

I appreciate the idea Xirus. I gave it a try last night and got a winning streak going each time. I uh, pretty much turned TF into a Kamikaze monster. The first couple of games were close because we were facing people who were legitimately zerg/team ganking together and preventing levels, but TF pretty much turned it around and won it single handedly as far as offense goes.

The other two (3v3; the Grass Map) stayed on defense and I pretty much gated around and face-tanked Turrets and killed them, backing away from them only long enough to 1) Reduce the Turret's stacking damage for another barrage of attacks, and 2) Recalling before they swooped in and killed me. I managed to pretty much live in their base and destroy their inhibitors and turrets which gave them overwhelming pressure.

The flaw to this of course was I had something like a 0/9/2 for a score at the end, with literally all 9 of the deaths happening on the offensive that made them go from constantly breaking into our base to having them stay at their base to deal with the super minions and my harassment. This worked even better in the 5v5 map because I could swap between lanes non-stop.

All in all it was pretty solid for pushing. Always killed the most minions, always got 9+ buildings destroyed. I really like the idea. The only flaw is there was really nothing I could do against enemy Champions, I pretty much gated anytime I saw one or I was a free kill. I feel little guilt in being a free kill at end game where my death doesn't seem to 'matter' as much in terms of feeding them as long as I do good building damage in each death. I didn't start doing solo/non-minion turret runs until I got up to Phantom Dancer.

As far as powers go I tried teleport and it was alright early game, but end game it felt like a waste so I got rid of it. Heal is kind of nice for face-tanking turrets because if Destiny is Down and an enemy champion started trying to stop me from killing a turret in their base (When I'm not supported by minions) instead of gating I would just pop a heal and do as much damage to their tower as possible before dying. Revive obviously helped at end game considering that's where building kamikaze began for me. I've yet to give Rally a try, although I probably will today.

The only other item I experimented with is Bloodrazor. Only because I'm used to using it on my kill-characters, but in reality it wasn't as helpful as I'm used to so I'll probably get back to making Infinity Edge for better pushing.


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Xirus

Senior Member

11-01-2009

@Reivur

Yeah, as I said, this build isn't good at killing. This build only works if you (and your team) are more concerned with winning than the scoreboard. It's not at all uncommon for me to go 0/11/2 with this build, although some games it ends up being 3/5/2, due to a strong middle game and a poor enemy team. The build also only works if your team is able to push without you. I've had some pugs LOLing at my scoreboard, when I was the only one keeping top/bottom lane pushed.

If you're using heal to get a bit of extra damage in some situations on towers, I think you should try rally. It's +30% damage to you AND your minions, AND It heals all of you. I don't really like revive for the long cooldown either- I find I spend so much time dead, that an occasional revive doesn't actually give me much extra time. I think I agree with your analysis on teleport, it's not as useful as the other spells.

Anyone have thoughts on getting brutalizer after phantom dancer, then the golem buff, for a 21 second cooldown on gate?

I'm going to tinker with it a bit more and write up a full guide, let me know how you're going!


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Reivur

Senior Member

11-01-2009

Hmm. I'm liking Rally as a replacement for Heal. Beyond it being amazing during a minion push, it also when I do solo-pushes takes two turret shots in my stead as it seems to generate aggro minion style. I'm still in love with Revive though for kamikazing though; like when I get an inhibitor near dead and then pop revive, tele there and finish it before it can regen.

But I may replace Revive with flash when I get high enough level for it. At the moment I'm just 9.


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Reep

Senior Member

11-01-2009

Although DPS builds on Twisted Fate can be extremely effective, especially with high level gate + teleport, I still prefer Hyrbrid-ish builds. TF's two damaging spells are fairly nuke-ish, which is the basis for getting AP. As you said, going pure AP makes you useless for downing towers, and sometimes you just can't dish out enough damage in team fights, even if your team has slows + stuns.

You'd be surprised how much damage you can dish out with high attack speed. Beserker's boots + Nashor's tooth + trinity force not only helps with last hitting creeps due to extremely high attack speed for maximum gold income (which TF heavily relies on), towers go down fairly fast.

I bet you could still take down a tower at least twice as fast as the build OuLuvKyanN posted even if you replaced Scorcerer's boots with Beserker's Boots, which is why I have been experimenting with getting Maldred's Razors and eventually Bloodrazor. Maldred's Razors offers the imfamous 500 damage ability, along with some armor (which will help with survivability), while Bloodrazor offers immense attack speed, and it really pwns tanks AND towers, both of which a Hybrid TF has problems with.

The only problem is every single item I use is pretty vital for my success so I don't know what to get rid of!


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Reep

Senior Member

11-01-2009

Alright so I just played a 60 minute game with my end game items like so

Last Whisper
Maldred's Bloodrazor
Nashor's Tooth
Beserkers Greaves
Trinity Force
Starks Fervor

And I always had a AP potion active. I easily killed three people at once once I got all my items. I solo'd Baron no problem, and I backdoored all three inhibitors for the win. I have to say this is stupidily OP, but unfortunately the other team was on vent, and I died a lot in the beggining :/

I went
Mekki pendant, HP pot and MP pot

First trip back

Boots of Speed
Mekki Pendant -> Chalice of Harmony
Maldreds Razor

Second trip back

Boots of Speed -> Beserkers Greaves
Sheen
Stinger
AP potion

Third trip back

Bloodrazor (at this point I was about level 18, and the Ammumu was pretty hp-tastic)
Nashor's Tooth

And then due to my gate's cooldown being like 30, I made a million trips back because I was getting very aggresive, thus having low health a lot.

Millionth trip back

Sheen -> Trinity Force
Starks Fervor
Last Whisper

I had rediculous attack speed, I believe it was at least 2.0. I noticed a glitch, I'm going to try to replicate it, but once I had all those items, I would actually throw at least two cards when I use the skill Pick a Card. One time I threw five gold cards instantly pwning a Ryze (WHOS THE NUKE KING NOW??!?!?!). I'm almost positive this glitch is due to my immense attack speed.


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feardragon

Senior Member

11-01-2009

Reep do you kill their entire team between visits back? lol


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