Sion is too good

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1337LoL

Member

10-31-2009

Sions move Enrage is incredibly stupid.

Enrage:While active Sion deals extra physical damage at the cost of health. Additionally, he gains maximum health permanently whenever he kills a unit.

There is no health cap? You can easily get HP5 items and last hit creeps with enrage on and just spam max health. Most games has a Sion with 3k-4k health with no health increasing items, his shield can easily destroy creeps and allow him to grind with no problem.

NOTHING should increase to infinity. If a game goes long enough he can have 5k-6k health.

All you need to do is stack damage/speed and your health will just increase on its own.

My idea: cap it off at 200-300, Sion is good enough without ridiculous health. The extra physical damage is enough to make the move good.


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renticletape

Senior Member

10-31-2009

Unless he is left alone to solo farm for 40 mins, a in any typical game (30 - 40 mins) he might have at most 150 or so creep kills. At about 3 health per creep kill on average, he might gain at most + 450 HP by the end of the game. That isn't much. Anyone can buy that much HP for less than 1000 gold. Its actually one of his weakest abilities except for the fact that it gives you bonus damage.


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Truhls

Senior Member

10-31-2009

nerf sion thread makes me lawl. some scrub got owned by a decent sion apparently.


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Octovert

Senior Member

10-31-2009

Yes, and veigar can theoretically get infinite AP as well. But like the above said, realistically how many creeps can a hero possibly kill in a game? When i play singed, i'm almost always the best creep killer in the game, and i rarely hit 200. And sion doesn't have anywhere near the tools that singed does to farm.


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Tarion

Senior Member

10-31-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyBarnacle View Post
Yes, and veigar can theoretically get infinite AP as well. But like the above said, realistically how many creeps can a hero possibly kill in a game? When i play singed, i'm almost always the best creep killer in the game, and i rarely hit 200. And sion doesn't have anywhere near the tools that singed does to farm.
I'd disagree. A little.

APSion with Shield wipes whole waves every 12 seconds or so.

So he can do a lot. But yeah, the Veigar example is a brilliant one. Sion's hardly the end of the world.


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God SoRcuS

Senior Member

10-31-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarion View Post
I'd disagree. A little.

APSion with Shield wipes whole waves every 12 seconds or so.

So he can do a lot. But yeah, the Veigar example is a brilliant one. Sion's hardly the end of the world.
But since the levels reset, and the end of crazy runes.. You can't do what Singed does with Sion... With the miserable mana pool and without mana regeneration items + golem buff often you cannot spam your shield like you used to.

Also to mention that shield has indeed been nerfed enough that its kinda taken out easily if you are purely AP sion... As a constant AP Sion player I can clearly say that his effectiveness has indeed gone down.. I see more incentives to make him a semi tank semi DPS variety more often than not... But thats not the problem with the OP..

/troll thread


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YummyCheese

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Adjudicator

10-31-2009

Correct me if wrong, but I'm pretty sure there is (was) a cap. I remember hitting it at ~ 5000 health several games ago. Pre release. Dunno if it has changed.


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Stumpster

Adjudicator

10-31-2009

Even in a decently long game, you'd be hard pressed to break 250 creep kills while still being useful to the team. It's really not that big a buff in the long run, it's just that Sion already has a very high natural health gain, so when you put the two together it's common to have a Sion with plenty of HP and no real HP items.


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cF Dawgy

Senior Member

11-01-2009

The 1:1 AP Scaling for all of Sion's abilities is pretty sick though. His shield can take quite a beating if you have a 500 AP Sion, His cryptic gaze will hit you for 800 damage without good MR. As someone said in a guide I read, 500(?) AP Sion (Very late game) + Lich Bane = Activate Shield (0), Attack (650?), Stun (800?), Attack (650?, Detonate Shield (800?), Attack Again (650?). This can all occur within several seconds, leading to a nuke. And yes, Lich Bane and Sheen proc off of the activation of the shield AND the detonation of the shield. I think Lich Bane does have a three second internal cooldown, so this may not work as I described above, but still. That's some crazy damage. Even 300 AP (More feasible) produces crazy results.

Banshee's Veil is the bane to such a build, but without facing it, Sion becomes one of the best nukers in the game imo.


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Quinnister

Senior Member

11-01-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgy View Post
The 1:1 AP Scaling for all of Sion's abilities is pretty sick though. His shield can take quite a beating if you have a 500 AP Sion, His cryptic gaze will hit you for 800 damage without good MR. As someone said in a guide I read, 500(?) AP Sion (Very late game) + Lich Bane = Activate Shield (0), Attack (650?), Stun (800?), Attack (650?, Detonate Shield (800?), Attack Again (650?). This can all occur within several seconds, leading to a nuke. And yes, Lich Bane and Sheen proc off of the activation of the shield AND the detonation of the shield. I think Lich Bane does have a three second internal cooldown, so this may not work as I described above, but still. That's some crazy damage. Even 300 AP (More feasible) produces crazy results.

Banshee's Veil is the bane to such a build, but without facing it, Sion becomes one of the best nukers in the game imo.
But Banshee's Veil does shut him down so hard it isn't even funny. It's like fighting Ryze.

If you feed the Sion, he's a beast. If you feed the Ryze, he's a beast. If you buy a Banshee's, both change from being a tiger to being a kitten. If you don't, it is your loss. If you do, I can start around 25-3 and then end 29-6, even though you fed me an ABSURD amount you can hold me to a 1:1 ratio then. I've lost a game as Ryze going 29-6 and I've played games as Sion where I've been neutered when 3 out of the 5 people on the other team took Banshee's Veil.

Yes, if you let me start 12-0 with my kills and deaths, I will probably be taking out a huge portion of your squishy HP in a combo. Still, in this situation, I'm fed as hell. Don't feed people who can scale well against you; it's simple as that.

After a combo, Sion is useless for a while, like Ryze. AP Sion has no tools other than his stun and shield. His cooldowns are not quick, like Annie's. In my opinion, AP Sion is an overrated champion but I continue to use him because I like. It's the same reason I liked Ryze; he can pub stomp if he wants to and he can leave his friends behind cause if friends don't stomp and if they don't stomp then they're no friends of mine.

Ignoring the Safety Dance reference, I do believe AP Sion is a viable character. Viable doesn't inherently mean good, though. I believe AoN used an AP Sion in a round, for example, but I don't remember it working out exceptionally well.

Chew on this for a second. AP Sion did more damage pre-buff, back when I started using him. With -CD reduction from the golem, his shield could go up immediately and had a 1.2 AP ratio. If I had a 500 AP Sion, I would do my 800 stun, 600 attack, 900 shield burst, shield activate 0, 600 attack, assuming the enemy has literally below the minimum armor and magic resist. Everyone inherently gains armor as they level up and everyone has a natural 23% magic damage reduction, keep in mind.


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