A map idea involving more than just a generic request

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DonnFirinne

Senior Member

06-15-2012

@slyguy6802
1. I wanted the jungle to feature more than the lanes in this game because of the game mode (CTF) so I made the jungle bigger and only put 2 lanes in. I'm not changing the number of lanes, nor will I add more free vision. I've already said wards may be cheaper/last longer, so the junglers will have less trouble keeping the wards up.
2. Yes, strong junglers will be very strong on this map, but as I said, I want the jungle to be important. Quick fix, draft mode, ban the champs that are too strong in the jungle (they already pull some bans in professional play on SR) and don't worry about it.
3. The lanes I intend to be just a little longer than the SR top and bottom lanes. I don't think it's too big for 6 person teams, and if anything a CTF map has a need to be a little too big for the team to be able to cover the whole map at all times.

I'm hoping to get feedback here on this thread. I will make, and have made, tweaks and changes when people bring up good points. Hopefully when the map is refined enough it will get some Riot attention. They do look at the boards and if this thread get enough attention and upvotes I'm confident they'll pay some attention to it.

@AspiredKill
Currently the minions will serve the purpose of giving exp/gold for laners and hindering a team trying to run the flag down the lanes. They will currently aggro to the flag bearer on sight and have an on-hit MS debuff to slow the flag carrier if they try to go in the lanes, so pushing the lanes will allow the flag carrier to run down the lane further without being slowed. Also, we are currently planning that when your minions reach the enemy base they will disappear and grant a small amount of global gold to the pushing team. I currently think this is enough of a purpose for them, but I'm open for an explanation as to why it isn't.


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TeknoWizard

Senior Member

06-15-2012

I just thought of how snow-bally this map will be. Since it's essentially all based off of team fights for the big objective, whatever team is more powerful will most likely just snowball very hard. I think the longer games you're going for would just be a drag, because if the other team gets an advantage, there seems little the other team can do, and they end up just getting aced and aced again while the other team takes forever to get up to 100 points. I think either flag caps have to be worth more, offer a way for a losing team to possibly comeback (Make the legendary mobs give a GREAT buff but be very tough to kill), or make the point limit lower.


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Little Boy Nate

Senior Member

06-15-2012

Have you ever thought of the idea of more than one flag? If there was a flag in each base it would have both offensive and defensive play.

On the original idea, I think that there should be no buff or debuff on the flag bearer. If that is the case you are essentially making it a 4v5, in which case the enemy will just kill you and get the flag. This makes it extremely hard to cap the flag in either direction. The only thing that you could put on the flag bearer is a hard cap on movespeed. Maybe 400?

Also, I think you should add an objective system like in dominion, kill X epic monster for 5 points and a damage buff for a few minutes. Capture the flag for double points after a certain time has passed. Past 75 points champion kills should not give points to prevent a team deathmatch.


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DonnFirinne

Senior Member

06-15-2012

@TeknoWizard
The snowbally nature exists on all the maps, and can't be avoided. In straight 5v5 the stronger team wins, the end. If they keep winning, they get harder and harder to beat. The only way to counter it is to have something that forces them to be at a disadvantage. Usually this is towers/the base. This is why I want fewer lanes and entrances, that way getting the flag in forces the flag bearing team to be at a disadvantage in the fight there.

@Maxijazz
I thought of more than one flag, but I've addressed why I disliked it before.

The flag debuffs are up for fluctuation, but as seen by TeknoWizard, others are concerned about the flag bearing team being too powerful. As such, I won't be making any hard decisions on the buff/debuff until the rest of the map is much more defined. I am open for further discussion, but I'll need full explanations for the suggested changes.

A cap on the possible points from kills has been brought up, and I'm currently entertaining the idea. I don't want it to be a deathmatch either. As for the objective system, I'm not sure. I'll have to see how the redone jungle falls out when I get to drawing it. An objective system would rely heavily on having a large number of global objectives without other significant rewards associated, like in Dominion.


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DebosBike

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Senior Member

06-15-2012

Stealth and ultimates should not be disabled. Using them should just drop the flag automatically. Otherwise grabbing it is kind of a death sentence.

I also think my idea about having towers at the end of each lane should create an early game without completely preventing the possibility of an early game flag steal.


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banman202

Junior Member

06-15-2012

I don't know if this was mentioned yet, but the flag carrier should be unable to activate any abilities or actives.


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Little Boy Nate

Senior Member

06-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonnFirinne View Post
@Maxijazz
I thought of more than one flag, but I've addressed why I disliked it before.

The flag debuffs are up for fluctuation, but as seen by TeknoWizard, others are concerned about the flag bearing team being too powerful. As such, I won't be making any hard decisions on the buff/debuff until the rest of the map is much more defined. I am open for further discussion, but I'll need full explanations for the suggested changes.

A cap on the possible points from kills has been brought up, and I'm currently entertaining the idea. I don't want it to be a deathmatch either. As for the objective system, I'm not sure. I'll have to see how the redone jungle falls out when I get to drawing it. An objective system would rely heavily on having a large number of global objectives without other significant rewards associated, like in Dominion.
I can understand if you do not want more than one flag, I did not realize you already talked about it because I have not gone through the entire thread.

I think a cap on kill points would be needed, otherwise it becomes deathmatch which nobody wants as we have pointed out. I think around 75-80 would be a reasonable place to cap it, like how your nexus does not lose health after 125 health from deaths in dominion.

The objective system would work in my opinion because you have multiple things to do in this map including:
-Pushing minions to gain global experience
-Capturing and scoring the flag in the enemy base
-Taking epic and legendary monsters
-Getting the buffs
-Hunting the enemy to put your team at an advantage.
If an objective comes up that you can do without then you can scatter and do a multitude of these while you have a general idea of where the enemy is because they can go for the objective.

Another idea that I just came up with is global vision spots like dominion. Put them on entrances to buffs, entrances to epic and legendary monsters, and in lanes. I say entrances because otherwise it will be too easy to steal them with global or long range skills.

I am very interested in this game mode and hopefully it gets some Riot attention. The only thing though is that in many other games that have this (World of Warcraft, Rift, various other mmorpg games) you do not get stronger while in the game, and everybody has comparable strength throughout the game. This could be changed if everybody started at level 18 but then late game champions become much stronger than others. A good amount of starting gold would also be needed, maybe 5k so you can get boots and 1 major item.

Keep at it, hoping this gets a red post!

Edit: Almost forgot! What about a timer before the next flag spawns after it is captured to give time for other objectives?


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PeopleWonder

Junior Member

06-15-2012

GREAT idea, but it needs some work. Maybe it would be better to return to your own base? it also seems like there would need to be some balancing so that the flag bearer can get the flag to the other side and it doesn't become a game of getting to 100 1st. As for the limited entrances, you could make it so that it's just an open base, but that may hinder flash's usefulness. 20 seconds seems a bit much to be CHANNELING in an enemy base, in that time they can recall and simply kill you.


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Howard Ogreman

Recruiter

06-15-2012

Get rid of warmogs, similar to dominion? 20 second channel time seems really long.


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DonnFirinne

Senior Member

06-16-2012

@dovakiinn and Howard Overman
I will bring the channel time down slightly. Remember that this is a channel that you can opt to end at any point.
I don't want the flag being brought to one's own base, it's impossible to defend against.
The point of the game is to get to 100 (or whatever number is decided on) first, so I'm not sure about your point there.