A map idea involving more than just a generic request

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DonnFirinne

Senior Member

06-18-2012

@Verandure
I'm redoing the jungle, and I think depending on where I put the exits I may also bring a jungle path close enough to let you flash out at a very specific point as well. Depends on how the entrances fall.

Currently the flag breaks all stealth.

If you don't want the other team to get the gold, farm hard. Pick Anivia and stopp every wave all the time. Morgana can clear pretty well too. I'm sure it won't be too bad, depending on how much gold is given.


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Insípid

Senior Member

06-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonnFirinne View Post
@slyguy6802
1. I wanted the jungle to feature more than the lanes in this game because of the game mode (CTF) so I made the jungle bigger and only put 2 lanes in. I'm not changing the number of lanes, nor will I add more free vision. I've already said wards may be cheaper/last longer, so the junglers will have less trouble keeping the wards up.
2. Yes, strong junglers will be very strong on this map, but as I said, I want the jungle to be important. Quick fix, draft mode, ban the champs that are too strong in the jungle (they already pull some bans in professional play on SR) and don't worry about it.
3. The lanes I intend to be just a little longer than the SR top and bottom lanes. I don't think it's too big for 6 person teams, and if anything a CTF map has a need to be a little too big for the team to be able to cover the whole map at all times.

I'm hoping to get feedback here on this thread. I will make, and have made, tweaks and changes when people bring up good points. Hopefully when the map is refined enough it will get some Riot attention. They do look at the boards and if this thread get enough attention and upvotes I'm confident they'll pay some attention to it.

@AspiredKill
Currently the minions will serve the purpose of giving exp/gold for laners and hindering a team trying to run the flag down the lanes. They will currently aggro to the flag bearer on sight and have an on-hit MS debuff to slow the flag carrier if they try to go in the lanes, so pushing the lanes will allow the flag carrier to run down the lane further without being slowed. Also, we are currently planning that when your minions reach the enemy base they will disappear and grant a small amount of global gold to the pushing team. I currently think this is enough of a purpose for them, but I'm open for an explanation as to why it isn't.
I like it but with the first to cap 100 points., this might take forever, with enemies, the flag itself, and the creeps to disrupt you. Not to mention a 20second channel seems a bit excessive. These games would last forever long, they would be hella fun of course, but my no one wants to be in games for over an hour.


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DonnFirinne

Senior Member

06-19-2012

@AspiredKill
I'm looking for an average game time of 45 minutes, and I'm willing to change a variety of things to hone in on that time. This is a little longer I think than the average on SR, but with a slightly larger map and slightly larger team I think people will accept it. Of course some games will run long, especially if the teams are both playing really well, but that can happen on any map.

Edit: Also remember that a large portion of this community will surrender games early anyway (inb4 downvotes)


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Insípid

Senior Member

06-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonnFirinne View Post
@AspiredKill
I'm looking for an average game time of 45 minutes, and I'm willing to change a variety of things to hone in on that time. This is a little longer I think than the average on SR, but with a slightly larger map and slightly larger team I think people will accept it. Of course some games will run long, especially if the teams are both playing really well, but that can happen on any map.

Edit: Also remember that a large portion of this community will surrender games early anyway (inb4 downvotes)
So time limit 45-60 minutes? And by the looks of your map running back to base is going to take forever long lmao especially with the debuffs. I mean think about running all the way back to the fountain from your mid turret without boots on anivia. thats gonna be a true pain.


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DonnFirinne

Senior Member

06-19-2012

Boots are going to be a must on this map. Nobody is going to start without them, that would be suicide. An increase in starting gold should allow everyone to get boots 1 at least, if not boots 2. Running to the enemy team's base has to take long enough that the defending team can at least partly get back to mount a defense before the person with the flag can run there. If it was too short, someone with boots of mobility could grab the flag when nobody was looking and capture it with little to no resistance.


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slyguy6802

Senior Member

06-19-2012

@DonnFirinne
Again, not trying to nag you but did you read what I sent you?

http://www.costik.com/nowords.html

This is Costikyans game model. A very famous written piece for game developers about what a game is and how it can be improved.

The words I used before "decision making" and "information" were because they are a part of his model.

I said we need [B]at least[B] three lanes because the lanes give vision or "information" to the players so that they can make good "decisions" based off of the "information" that they have.

My point is that if there is not an incentive to get out of the jungle and show yourself passive play such as bush camping and excessive and I mean excessive warding because you have no Idea were the enemy could be would become the most strategic way to play the game. While blindly traversing through the jungle hoping you don't run into a mob of enemies will become a norm for solo que games.

Decision making is key to all games. That is why it is the first thing listed for what makes a game in Costikyans model posted above.


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DonnFirinne

Senior Member

06-19-2012

@slyguy6802
I have read over it, but I still disagree with your suggestion of a third lane and your claims about the large jungle.

Third Lane: Where would you put it? If you put it in the center, it breaks the map because it becomes the single most efficient way to bring the flag to the enemy base. No debate at all. If it is put off to the side, it does not add sufficient usefulness or information. If you see some other way to do this, please suggest it.

Jungle: I disagree with your thoughts on how it will work. Many people have been asking for a larger, more involved jungle, so I think plenty of people will enjoy being able to "live" in the jungle for the duration of the laning phase. As for a "passive" playstyle there, the junglers will still have to work quickly to keep up with the laners, and ganking will remain an important part of the game. If one team isn't ganking, the other team can simply force a 4v2 engage to get an advantage. Where, how often, and how well a team ganks will be an important factor.

Warding: The large jungle allows the teams to ward where they see fit, allowing them to choose where they want to gather information from. Because the jungle is so involved, that's where the most important information will be anyway. This also forces the teams to decide where to ward. Too few wards or poorly placed wards do not give them the information they need. Too many and they waste gold without gaining significantly more benefit. I think there is plenty of decision making, and certainly not a passive playstyle any more than currently exists.


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slyguy6802

Senior Member

06-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonnFirinne View Post
@slyguy6802
I have read over it, but I still disagree with your suggestion of a third lane and your claims about the large jungle.

Third Lane: Where would you put it? If you put it in the center, it breaks the map because it becomes the single most efficient way to bring the flag to the enemy base. No debate at all. If it is put off to the side, it does not add sufficient usefulness or information. If you see some other way to do this, please suggest it.

Jungle: I disagree with your thoughts on how it will work. Many people have been asking for a larger, more involved jungle, so I think plenty of people will enjoy being able to "live" in the jungle for the duration of the laning phase. As for a "passive" playstyle there, the junglers will still have to work quickly to keep up with the laners, and ganking will remain an important part of the game. If one team isn't ganking, the other team can simply force a 4v2 engage to get an advantage. Where, how often, and how well a team ganks will be an important factor.

Warding: The large jungle allows the teams to ward where they see fit, allowing them to choose where they want to gather information from. Because the jungle is so involved, that's where the most important information will be anyway. This also forces the teams to decide where to ward. Too few wards or poorly placed wards do not give them the information they need. Too many and they waste gold without gaining significantly more benefit. I think there is plenty of decision making, and certainly not a passive playstyle any more than currently exists.
@DonnFirinne
You need to go back to the drawing board. It's as simple as that. You have a great idea but I've critiqued multiple games before and I'm telling you as a friend that your capture the flag game mode needs to be reworked.


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DonnFirinne

Senior Member

06-19-2012

Thank you for your input, slyguy6802. I respectfully disagree and will continue to see this idea through. Even if you're right and this map is doomed to failure, it will show Riot that people truly want new maps and are willing to do something about it.

If you happen to have time on your hands, I would really enjoy seeing you put out a map idea of your own. The more maps the merrier.


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TeknoWizard

Senior Member

06-19-2012

I do think that lanes feel rather pointless still. Maybe it could be so that duo lanes level faster than they would in SR?