Thornmail OP on Dominon Bot lane?

12
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

silenthunt

Senior Member

06-05-2012

I like to run Tristana bot which works pretty well against a large number of matchups (particularly against mages), but there's one thing which annoys me to no end, which is that a lot of the time, tanks or tanky dps can go from losing hard to zoning me hard in lane just by spending 2000 gold on a Thornmail. Then I pretty much kill myself by hitting them and they finish me off with their naturally high base damages.

I know what you'll say, Last Whisper and MR, but this is in itself frustrating since the cost of countering Thornmail is 2~3x the cost of getting a Thornmail.

This other time, this Shyvana who built practically nothing but armor (Randuin's, Frozen Heart, Thornmail etc.) would actually be able to kill me in a fight. I mean, if I can barely do any damage to her then fair enough, but a full tank actually beating a full offensive dps in damage? I find this preposterous.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Aparkhurst

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

06-05-2012

Duo queue with somebody who is willing to play a mage and swap bot after the thornmail.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Risemix

Senior Member

06-05-2012

The best thing you can do vs. Thornmail is build a Wit's End and a lot of lifesteal (what I like to do is get WE and 2 vamp scepters if it becomes a big problem).

The Wit's End reduces your incoming damage substantially and the extra lifesteal can more or less cancel out any of the remaining damage.

Wit's End isn't ideal on an AD carry but Dominion is more about countering the enemy team than building as many ideal damage items as possible.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Volandum

Senior Member

06-05-2012

Half-kill them, escape, heal off minions, finish them off. It's how jax dives a malphite on tower and wins.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Redenbacher

Senior Member

06-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by silenthunt View Post
I know what you'll say, Last Whisper and MR, but this is in itself frustrating since the cost of countering Thornmail is 2~3x the cost of getting a Thornmail.
This is a fundamentally flawed argument. The three counters to thornmail are some combination of armor penetration, magic resistance, and lifesteal.

Last Whisper does not 'set you back' or cost extra when someone purchases Thornmail. It increases your overall DPS, which is your goal. It gives you AD as well, which you would have purchased anyway.

Wit's End grants additional magic damage and attack speed, with a side of MR. Again, increasing your DPS, and AS should be part of your build anyway.

Maw of Malmortius gives you AD, which you would have purchased anyway. You're paying for the shield and MR.

Lifesteal should be in your build regardless of what the enemy is building as a strong means of sustain. Working in Executioner's Calling or Sanguine Blade is not a detriment to your build at all.


Having a well-rounded build does not mean you have a bad build. Maximizing for DPS does not mean 'max AS, Crit, and AD'. You have to take your and your enemy's suvivability in to account. You can't deal damage if you're dead, and likewise, you can't kill your enemy if you don't counter their build.

TL;DR - Thornmail is not OP.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ShawNuff

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Member

06-05-2012

thonrmail + voidstaff + tabi + healing reduction is pretty fun to watch.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Biskey

Junior Member

06-05-2012

Thornmail is so OP bot lane. I build it regardless of the opponent. Totally owned an AP yi building only thornmail. Didn't even need boots. Actually I didn't need to move at all. just screamed COME AT ME BRO and everyone autoattacked me and died. Won the game like that. 36/0/0. I promise.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Psi21

Senior Member

06-05-2012

It was ricklessabandon from Riot community that brought up that Thornmail is extremely situational.

That often it is just better to build Frozen Heart and/or Randuin's Omen.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

silenthunt

Senior Member

06-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redenbacher View Post
This is a fundamentally flawed argument. The three counters to thornmail are some combination of armor penetration, magic resistance, and lifesteal.

Last Whisper does not 'set you back' or cost extra when someone purchases Thornmail. It increases your overall DPS, which is your goal. It gives you AD as well, which you would have purchased anyway.

Wit's End grants additional magic damage and attack speed, with a side of MR. Again, increasing your DPS, and AS should be part of your build anyway.

Maw of Malmortius gives you AD, which you would have purchased anyway. You're paying for the shield and MR.

Lifesteal should be in your build regardless of what the enemy is building as a strong means of sustain. Working in Executioner's Calling or Sanguine Blade is not a detriment to your build at all.


Having a well-rounded build does not mean you have a bad build. Maximizing for DPS does not mean 'max AS, Crit, and AD'. You have to take your and your enemy's suvivability in to account. You can't deal damage if you're dead, and likewise, you can't kill your enemy if you don't counter their build.

TL;DR - Thornmail is not OP.
I'm not against buying those items - I understand countering your enemy's build, my point is that it actually takes so much longer for you to get your necessary counter items when it only costs your enemy 2000 gold. Not to mention that the more armor they build, the less damage you'll be dealing, the less you'll be getting from lifesteal, while the amount of damage returned from thornmail only increases as you build more damage. To me that seems to be a problem.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

NavyGothic

Senior Member

06-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by silenthunt View Post
I'm not against buying those items - I understand countering your enemy's build, my point is that it actually takes so much longer for you to get your necessary counter items when it only costs your enemy 2000 gold. Not to mention that the more armor they build, the less damage you'll be dealing, the less you'll be getting from lifesteal, while the amount of damage returned from thornmail only increases as you build more damage. To me that seems to be a problem.
Sure, Thornmail and stacking armour makes an AD carry botlane an uphill battle. Impossible to win? No, but difficult. I don't think anyone is going to dispute that.

A better question is; why are you trying to force fights against an opponent with Thornmail and stacked armour? Dominion is a team game. If they've spent 5k on armour items, they've going to be horribly weak against one of your AP teammates coming down to gank them, or even simply taking over bot lane.

You can't win a game solo. If an enemy is counterbuilding you hard, don't fight that enemy!


12