Who is the absolute strongest champion? (Lore wise)

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throwmeaname

Junior Member

06-13-2012

K guys, people argue that Nasus is the strongest champion in the League. That may be true, but it does not say how strong he is under lore. I've read it up, and all it says he is a very smart curator. He is a teacher, a compasionate one at that. On the other hand, we see Renekton. Renekton, prior to his craziness, can sense the intentions of people and decides who sees the enlightened Nasus. If you have good intention, Renekton lets you pass. On the other hand, if you have bad intentions, you're rejected. At one point Renekton became mad from the very gift that made him the Gatekeeper.

Anyways, neither of those lore describe how strong either one of them are. If Nasus is the strongest based on his Siphoning Strike ability, which gains power on how much kills he has, then yes, Nasus with such an ability is a very strong contender. However, based on the lore and Nasus' personality, I really doubt that Nasus has enough kills to one shot any of the heroes in the League due to his compasion. I'm not taking anything away from Nasus. He's been in a war, so you know that he has killed people in battle - which in turn would power up his siphoning strike - And we know that Nasus is stronger than Renekton. But his power is debatable at best.

Wither is an ability that apparently ages a target. Again, it's debatable. If Nasus and Renekton fought, Nasus would have used Wither on Renekton. For all we know, Wither is only temporary, can be dispelled, or only work on beings with low constitution. As for the latter, I really doubt that the champions of League have a low enough constitution that may be one shotted with one spell.

For the argument that Nasus is a god, no he's not. Nasus, and his race, is the protector and ruler of their world. They may be strong, but they're not immortal, seeing as Renekton is prepared to be slain by his brother. In the end, strong as Nasus may be, I doubt that he is the strongest in the roster.


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Astraltar

Senior Member

06-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicLotus View Post
So letīs put your logic up, Veigar vs Jax:

-Before Veigar can even lift his wand to cast a blackhole;
-Jax smashes his skull, biatch died.

See? thereīs a problem when you make assumptions, you have to take all the considerations into itīs place.

I really see Veigar as one of the strongest (if not the strongest) mages in the LoL, but i seriously doubt he can cast a black hole that quickly and easily...

And most importantly, that Jax would just sit back and relax, letting veigar cast that without doing nothing.

My logic is better than yours and you should feel bad.

And just to clarify, Jax is IMHO the strongest in a 1vs1 fight, but that doesnīt necessarily mean his is the most powerfull champion....
For example Cho Gath can quite literally destroy the world if left unatended, something that jax canīt do.
Well, I did not assume in my argument that Veigar was standing directly next to Jax.
If one didn't ambush the other and they didn't start next to each other (which would be unfair for any mage), then my argument comes into play. It hinges on Veigar's capability to quickly cast a black hole where Jax is, which I believe he can do.


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Astraltar

Senior Member

06-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by KuzAnn View Post
@A: Teemo seemed appropriate because he was the guy who shot Veigar down the last time he tried something "evil", which makes him the "hero" to Veigar's "villain" for now. You want me to come up with another way that Veigar could mess himself up? Like tipping over a rock and breaking his concentration as he paces during his monologue or even becoming so swept up in said monologue that he loses his grip on the spell and it dissipates?

@B: It's a black hole that has somehow not sucked the entirety of Runeterra into it, you'd think Veigar is either A. able to control it, or B. it doesn't work like a normal black hole. Because a black hole is naturally freakishly selective about what it sucks into itself, right? And as I said before, we don't even know if Veigar would be smart enough to use the black hole on his first try. He's Veigar. And note that I even added "or whatever the Tiny Master of Evil happens to feel like using at the moment" in the battle scenario.

@C: Assuming my logic is correct? You've read that JoJ article, right? Veigar is pretty much doomed to the life of a Saturday morning cartoon villain, and you think he could actually succeed at killing someone? We're talking about the guy who uses horseshoes and balloons in an attempt to steal a precious landmark even though he could use his power to do something more direct with it, doesn't even know what he's going to do with said landmark once he's stolen it, is too busy talking to notice incoming threat to said balloons, and once foiled flies off yelling "you haven't seen the last of me" and "I'll get you next time" only to be shot down by Teemo. It's to the point where if you have him do something totally serious he stops being Veigar. He is meant to be that way, and honestly I don't want him to change, because I like him the way he is. He's funny and I'd be pretty sad if we didn't have our adorable little ball of evil, however incompetent he might be.

And I added a post farther down about Nasus and Xerath vs Jax if you had bothered to read that far, because otherwise you wouldn't have added part C since it's already been covered. Jax would be unable to deal with them unless he got his hands on specialized weapons and armor, and who knows where or if those things are made? (Since apparently I need to repeat myself on this.) And I also mentioned that Renekton did a better job than Veigar in the very post you quoted.

I'm not mad about this or anything, but it's pretty annoying when it seems like you go through and either miss or outright ignore facts or things that I've already stated. The evidence to back up Veigar's nature is in the JoJ(and honestly I wish we'd had more articles about his antics, it would have been really fun to read), and if you had used someone competent like Nasus or Xerath in your example, I would have agreed with you and not stepped in at all.
a) I don't believe this is relevant. Teemo has no part in the battle. And frankly, without someone coming in, I don't think even Veigar is stupid enough to actually let Jax escape - unless this really IS a Saturday morning cartoon.

b) I assumed that Veigar had moderate control over his black holes. Otherwise, I agree that my argument is invalid.

c) Yes, I read the JoJ (before writing the post in question), and I didn't read it as him being totally incompetent. Mostly incompetent, sure, but I still think he would be able to win against Jax - assuming he actually gets the spell off before Jax smashes his skull in, which would only happen if they started right next to each other. That was just my opinion, though. By the way, I also admit that in my original post (that you quoted), I didn't remember the fact that Veigar has basically schizophrenia, so I probably should have used Nasus or Xerath.

(And I missed your post further down about Nasus and Xerath; not sure how I did that.)


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Soliasildo

Senior Member

06-14-2012

Lore-wise, I would say that the god-brothers Nasus and Renekton top the chart, with Zilean a close third. Right below them you would have Xerath, then Morgana and Kayle. I'd say after that you have your elemental avatars (Anivia and Brand), and the top 10 being rounded out by Karthus and Fiddlesticks. After that, it would go pretty much every magic-user, with a few non-mage champions like Jax, Yi, Wukong, and Irelia mixed in. At the bottom are the mostly mundane/physical champions, followed by your average lay soldier of any Valoran nation.


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Astraltar

Senior Member

06-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soliasildo View Post
Lore-wise, I would say that the god-brothers Nasus and Renekton top the chart, with Zilean a close third. Right below them you would have Xerath, then Morgana and Kayle. I'd say after that you have your elemental avatars (Anivia and Brand), and the top 10 being rounded out by Karthus and Fiddlesticks. After that, it would go pretty much every magic-user, with a few non-mage champions like Jax, Yi, Wukong, and Irelia mixed in. At the bottom are the mostly mundane/physical champions, followed by your average lay soldier of any Valoran nation.
I might debate the placement of Zilean at third (what with his messed-up memory, at least for the time being), and I think Anivia and Brand could go a bit higher than Morgana. But it's a nice list.


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EpicLotus

Senior Member

06-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astraltar View Post
Well, I did not assume in my argument that Veigar was standing directly next to Jax.
If one didn't ambush the other and they didn't start next to each other (which would be unfair for any mage), then my argument comes into play. It hinges on Veigar's capability to quickly cast a black hole where Jax is, which I believe he can do.
And then your scenario is unfair to any non-mage champion...

When i think about an 1 vs 1 confrotation i logically assume both champions are facing each other... no a mile away...

And just to put another thing out.
Physical champion have their habilities limited aswell, otherwise graves could simply one shot everyone to death... A shotgun with magic on it???? -.-

We just canīt make these assumptions as a lot of things come to play, the only thing we can do is read the lore and "guess" to an extent the champion power agaisnt others.
And here is where Jax shines...


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Xaephros

Senior Member

06-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicLotus View Post
And then your scenario is unfair to any non-mage champion...

When i think about an 1 vs 1 confrotation i logically assume both champions are facing each other... no a mile away...

And just to put another thing out.
Physical champion have their habilities limited aswell, otherwise graves could simply one shot everyone to death... A shotgun with magic on it???? -.-

We just canīt make these assumptions as a lot of things come to play, the only thing we can do is read the lore and "guess" to an extent the champion power agaisnt others.
And here is where Jax shines...
I always pictured the confrontation as the two contestants facing each other on opposite sides of a fairly large arena.


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Seth Lightheart

Senior Member

06-15-2012

Hey, I was thinking a lot about this post before I decided to post on it, and there were a few things I was thinking about that no one said anything about. Its true Nasus is VERY powerful, so powerful that he is considered a God.

However I believe that there are 2 champions I didn’t see anyone talk about; Heimerdinger and Ziggs. True Heim isn’t that powerful in game, however the little Yordle is SMART. A part of me truly believes that if you give him enough preparation he could beat any of the champions. Think of batman.
2nd would be Zigs, read his lore, he destroyed Zaunite Prision. I don’t care how powerful Nasus is, I don’t think his body could take as much punishment as a fortified prison wall which didn’t take any damage from military grade fire.

And lastly…. Someone no one talked about. Caitlyn. If we are talking about if 1 champion wanted to kill all the others my money would be on her. I know this might throw you guys for a loop but an anti-material round would rip though a dog skull real nice.


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IS1a420802574b139f7409f

Senior Member

06-15-2012

Don't have time to go through and quote each individual spot, but to address a few general things:

Why is Nasus stronger than Renekton? In their lore Nasus defeated Renekton and was about to deliver the killing blow when Nasus was summoned to Runeterra. While not definite proof, it does mean that Nasus was able to get the upper hand easily before, and Renekton expected Nasus to kill him when they fought again. I believe this shows up in Renekton's judgement.

Heimerdinger and Ziggs are not really considered for the same reason as Swain. While they may have power in plans/influence, they are not individually strong. If you want to count who could win a world ward in Runeterra, it is likely Swain, as he currently rules Noxus, while no other ruler appears in the champion list.

Why Xerath/Brand/Nocturne/Cho'gath are below Fiddlesticks? The summoners contained and imprisoned all the prior, but have been unable to do anything about Fiddlesticks besides abandon a wing of their headquarters to not bother him. Fiddlesticks is otherwise unimpressive, but the fact that the summoners cannot displace him makes him defacto stronger than the ones they can imprison easily, like Brand.

People are too quick to discount champions without magical prowess. Just as on the fields of justice, magic does not always prevail over might. While champions such as Jarvin, Garen, Darius, etc are probably not the strongest, their might alone allows them to compete with foreign mages regularly. The abilty to smash ones spear into the ground hard enough to cause a cataclysm is a reminder that they should not be treated as "normal" humans.

On the subject of Jax, once again, it is probable that he is the former Grand Master of League, and either way, is absurdly powerful on and off the fields of justice. Unquestionable the strongest man in world where men can fight monsters and gods, I'm not going to take him out of the top ten without a more evidence to the contrary.

For the sake of the argument, top ten is something like (in no particular order):

Nasus
Jax
Anivia
Fiddlesticks
Cho'gath
Pulsefire Ezreal
Xerath
Ryze

Explanations:
Pulsefire Ezreal is mostly a joke, but if you think about, the Pulsefire armor is clearly a grade above, and likely from the future. For balance reasons its not any different in game, but as a lore exercise, probably is considerable stronger than Ezreal, who was a prodigal mage to start with.

Ryze does not need the scroll to be the single most powerful living mage.

Xerath is a bit of an unknown, but appears pretty strong.

Jax should not be discounted. Period. It is unknown exactly how badass a dude he is, but he's a bad ass dude no matter how you cut it, and as noted, probably and is Ashram the original Grand Master of League and probably one of the most powerful people in Runeterra.

Fiddlesticks for previously mentioned reasons.

Nasus and Anivia as they are gods, and Anivia is at least immortal, as well as an elemental aspect. Nasus has vast knowledge of the universe and vast power.

Cho'gath is the strongest void entity currently on Runeterra, and no laughing matter.


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Seth Lightheart

Senior Member

06-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by herdsheep View Post
Heimerdinger and Ziggs are not really considered for the same reason as Swain. While they may have power in plans/influence, they are not individually strong. If you want to count who could win a world ward in Runeterra, it is likely Swain, as he currently rules Noxus, while no other ruler appears in the champion list.
While its true that these two are not physically strong they possess abilities that make up for it.

Such as Heimdinger could easily build a any number of machines to destroy any opponent.

And as said before Ziggs could just blow them up....

I still don't see why they are so easily thrown out of the fight.

I think its easy to throw out technology because magic is by cooler. But tec is by far less restrictions when going big.


(Also.... one more thing I forgot about. Heim has nano tec.... he could take apart an opponent on the microscopic level)