Who is the absolute strongest champion? (Lore wise)

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Astraltar

Senior Member

06-15-2012

Hey wait.
Before anything else... what exactly are the "rules" for this matchup?
I always pictured it as both champions being in their current form (that means physical form for Nocturne and bound-with-chains for Xerath) and on the opposite sides of a fairly large arena, so that swords-people can't instagib Veigar.
What do you think?


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Grand Viper

Senior Member

06-15-2012

I'm going to say Fiddlesticks.

The League is not scared of any of the creatures they imprison and do whatever they want and treat the champions how they wish. They subdued Renekton like a derp, they brought Nocturne to its metaphysical knees, so on and so on.

Fiddlesticks is the only champion that they are absolutely and completely mortified of, not willing to try and kill it or try to remove it. They only loosely control it by keeping it in a single room. So he's definitely gotta be up there on the chain of power.


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Astraltar

Senior Member

06-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Viper View Post
I'm going to say Fiddlesticks.

The League is not scared of any of the creatures they imprison and do whatever they want and treat the champions how they wish. They subdued Renekton like a derp, they brought Nocturne to its metaphysical knees, so on and so on.

Fiddlesticks is the only champion that they are absolutely and completely mortified of, not willing to try and kill it or try to remove it. They only loosely control it by keeping it in a single room. So he's definitely gotta be up there on the chain of power.
Well, by that logic...

When the summoners were summoning Nasus, they literally cried out "pleas for mercy" (direct quote from his lore). And they do not have control over him in the slightest.

And Xerath regards the summoners as "petty", which implies that they also couldn't contain him even if they tried.


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KuzAnn

Senior Member

06-16-2012

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Originally Posted by Astraltar View Post
Well, by that logic...

When the summoners were summoning Nasus, they literally cried out "pleas for mercy" (direct quote from his lore). And they do not have control over him in the slightest.

And Xerath regards the summoners as "petty", which implies that they also couldn't contain him even if they tried.
The main difference there is that Nasus and Xerath were cooperative, we don't know for sure whether the League would have been able to handle them or not, you're just assuming that they wouldn't be able to. With Fiddlesticks, it has been clearly stated that they're not willing to do anything, instead preferring to abandon that chamber to him altogether.


Now that I read it again, it looks like Nasus's lore hasn't been updated to fit with Renekton's lore, because by reading Nasus's lore you get the feeling that Renekton is a cunning, traitorous opponent who's after power where in reality Renekton is just crazy and hopelessly consumed by darkness. He didn't have "endless ambition," he wanted his brother to free him from his torment through death because Nasus was the only one who could beat him. In fact, in Renekton's lore there's nothing about the war that could be brewing or has already erupted on their home world, as was mentioned in Nasus's lore, they're just keepers of the Great Library tending to their duties when Renekton loses himself to the darkness he sees in some of the people who approach it. For all we know, Nasus's lore could be completely outdated and retconned at this point since Renekton's contradicts several parts of it.

It doesn't say that a larger group of summoners wouldn't have been able to contain Nasus if he had decided to go on a rampage, and "please don't kill me" is generally something that an individual person would say if they saw something like him pop up unexpectedly. We don't even know how powerful the summoners conducting the ritual were. So really, we know for sure that the small group of summoners who accidentally summoned Nasus were afraid of him, but we have no idea what would have happened if the power of the entire organization had been used on him.


Xerath probably had the same opinion of the Shurima mages(wouldn't be surprising if he thought that of all non-ascended mages), and then they ended up locking him inside a magical sarcophagus that took Xerath thousands of years to break, and even now he's still got pieces stuck to him that continue to restrict his powers. He thinks very highly of himself, but he isn't stupid. The League has done archaeological research in Shurima as evidenced by the article in the JoJ hinting at Zerath's emergence, so it's likely that they've picked up magic techniques from there, and if anything, magical knowledge and practice should have moved forward over the thousands of years since Xerath's imprisonment rather than back. War breeds innovation, and we've had at least five Rune Wars in which each side is working furiously to outdo the other when it comes to the power and potency of their magic, so much so that they not only devastated countries, but the workings of the entire planet. Xerath's immense power is also restricted by the remnants of his prison, making him an even easier problem to deal with than what the mages of Shurima had to subdue when he was completely free. And the summoners are mages from many different city-states rather than one kingdom, which should mean there are a lot more summoners available to deal with Xerath than there were Shurima mages, whose normal numbers were likely lessened even more during the devastation that occurred during Xerath's ascending ritual.

He's strong, yes, but I think his cooperation with the League stems from something more than "I'm just being nice because I feel like it." It's implied that acquiring more power from the nexuses will allow Xerath to break free of his prison, and I think he would have gone around the League to get at them if he hadn't seen some sort of threat in them or if the League had the power to defy him. This is the guy who claims to feel no remorse over the countless people he's killed to get his power, so killing summoners to get what he wants should be no issue to him if he's able to get away with it. There isn't even any indication of the summoner conducting Xerath's judgement being afraid of him in the least, he seems more disgusted by Xerath's thirst for power than anything else.

"You sacrificed yourself, your people, and the woman you loved... all for power. Power you can no longer reach." The point here is that, however powerful he may have been in the past, Xerath is denied that power now in his imprisoned state. And Xerath says nothing to deny that he is less powerful, he confirms it by asserting that he will be free again some day.


What I'm basically saying is, you shouldn't underestimate the League. Their best summoners make up the cream of the crop on Valoran, and they're training up new powerful recruits every year. They are probably the largest collection of magical minds working in concert on the planet, it's wise to become their ally because you don't know what new magic they might have come up with while you weren't looking. (Or in Nasus's case, you agree with what they're trying to do and you want to help.) And when the League isn't even willing to deal with something(from another plane of existence entirely rather than a different planet or earlier time) that is camping out inside their main building/complex, it's wise to sit up and take notice. (Though, that might just be because no one wants to live out the rest of their days as a gibbering husk of what they once were and the League can't find anyone willing to risk that in order to remove Fiddlesticks.)


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Astraltar

Senior Member

06-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by KuzAnn View Post
The main difference there is that Nasus and Xerath were cooperative, we don't know for sure whether the League would have been able to handle them or not, you're just assuming that they wouldn't be able to. With Fiddlesticks, it has been clearly stated that they're not willing to do anything, instead preferring to abandon that chamber to him altogether.


Now that I read it again, it looks like Nasus's lore hasn't been updated to fit with Renekton's lore, because by reading Nasus's lore you get the feeling that Renekton is a cunning, traitorous opponent who's after power where in reality Renekton is just crazy and hopelessly consumed by darkness. He didn't have "endless ambition," he wanted his brother to free him from his torment through death because Nasus was the only one who could beat him. In fact, in Renekton's lore there's nothing about the war that could be brewing or has already erupted on their home world, as was mentioned in Nasus's lore, they're just keepers of the Great Library tending to their duties when Renekton loses himself to the darkness he sees in some of the people who approach it. For all we know, Nasus's lore could be completely outdated and retconned at this point since Renekton's contradicts several parts of it.

It doesn't say that a larger group of summoners wouldn't have been able to contain Nasus if he had decided to go on a rampage, and "please don't kill me" is generally something that an individual person would say if they saw something like him pop up unexpectedly. We don't even know how powerful the summoners conducting the ritual were. So really, we know for sure that the small group of summoners who accidentally summoned Nasus were afraid of him, but we have no idea what would have happened if the power of the entire organization had been used on him.


Xerath probably had the same opinion of the Shurima mages(wouldn't be surprising if he thought that of all non-ascended mages), and then they ended up locking him inside a magical sarcophagus that took Xerath thousands of years to break, and even now he's still got pieces stuck to him that continue to restrict his powers. He thinks very highly of himself, but he isn't stupid. The League has done archaeological research in Shurima as evidenced by the article in the JoJ hinting at Zerath's emergence, so it's likely that they've picked up magic techniques from there, and if anything, magical knowledge and practice should have moved forward over the thousands of years since Xerath's imprisonment rather than back. War breeds innovation, and we've had at least five Rune Wars in which each side is working furiously to outdo the other when it comes to the power and potency of their magic, so much so that they not only devastated countries, but the workings of the entire planet. Xerath's immense power is also restricted by the remnants of his prison, making him an even easier problem to deal with than what the mages of Shurima had to subdue when he was completely free. And the summoners are mages from many different city-states rather than one kingdom, which should mean there are a lot more summoners available to deal with Xerath than there were Shurima mages, whose normal numbers were likely lessened even more during the devastation that occurred during Xerath's ascending ritual.

He's strong, yes, but I think his cooperation with the League stems from something more than "I'm just being nice because I feel like it." It's implied that acquiring more power from the nexuses will allow Xerath to break free of his prison, and I think he would have gone around the League to get at them if he hadn't seen some sort of threat in them or if the League had the power to defy him. This is the guy who claims to feel no remorse over the countless people he's killed to get his power, so killing summoners to get what he wants should be no issue to him if he's able to get away with it. There isn't even any indication of the summoner conducting Xerath's judgement being afraid of him in the least, he seems more disgusted by Xerath's thirst for power than anything else.

"You sacrificed yourself, your people, and the woman you loved... all for power. Power you can no longer reach." The point here is that, however powerful he may have been in the past, Xerath is denied that power now in his imprisoned state. And Xerath says nothing to deny that he is less powerful, he confirms it by asserting that he will be free again some day.


What I'm basically saying is, you shouldn't underestimate the League. Their best summoners make up the cream of the crop on Valoran, and they're training up new powerful recruits every year. They are probably the largest collection of magical minds working in concert on the planet, it's wise to become their ally because you don't know what new magic they might have come up with while you weren't looking. (Or in Nasus's case, you agree with what they're trying to do and you want to help.) And when the League isn't even willing to deal with something(from another plane of existence entirely rather than a different planet or earlier time) that is camping out inside their main building/complex, it's wise to sit up and take notice. (Though, that might just be because no one wants to live out the rest of their days as a gibbering husk of what they once were and the League can't find anyone willing to risk that in order to remove Fiddlesticks.)
Oh dear.
You appear to be right.
Time to commit seppuku.


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EpicLotus

Senior Member

06-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astraltar View Post
Hmm.
Master Yi was probably that powerful in the old lore, but I think it got retconned to make him just a very skilled swordsman.
Although you have a point on Mordekaiser, I still believe Xerath wouldn't be fazed by bullets. Unless maybe the bullets "disrupt his magical energy" or something, Xerath is still in fact immortal. And if they hit the chain fragments, either they ricochet off harmlessly, or they somehow break it, which could actually increase his power.
Hereīs the thing, Immortal can mean "unable to die" but can be interpreted as "canīt die of old age but still be killed", vampires as an example, are imortal... but as the second type not first.

Thinking that someone (a champion in this case) is unkillable because he is imortal, just makes for poor Lore, as by default the champion is undeafetable... Karthus might be this "way too powerfull" case, as kassadin killed him once in the JoJ, but them he was k... even without oranges...


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20101484

Junior Member

06-16-2012

Th strongest one is tryndamere:
ENDLESS RAGE, it's limited to 5 seconds inside the league, but outside he could be able to use it indefinitely.

Now being serious the strongest one is ezreal in his pulsefire suit, probably designed by heimerdinger


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KuzAnn

Senior Member

06-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astraltar View Post
Oh dear.
You appear to be right.
Time to commit seppuku.
Noo, don't do it! You have so much to live for! *Attempts epic save*

And by the way... Has anyone else read Nocturne's judgement recently? I did just today and I must say, it does not look good for Valoran if he ever gets loose again. O____O Apparently he eats magic and can attack your very soul. That makes him sound even more terrifying than what his bio makes him out to be. And he's been around for a very long time as well, a predator specifically geared toward feeding off sentient creatures. You might even call him immortal for how long he's persisted and the fact that we don't know how to permanently dispose of him. Another thing to note is he can still get at your mind even in his physical form and while you're awake.

And this makes me even more sad that they're no longer doing judgements for champions. We learn so much about them during the judgements, we get a peak into the champion's inner workings and come out with a better understanding of their motivations and nature, I can only hope that whatever they come up with to replace them is just as informative if not more.


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Wickian

Senior Member

06-16-2012

Is there a limit on Lulu's polymorph magic out of the League restraints? If not couldn't she in theory turn anyone she wants into a flower or a dustmite or something and just leave them like that?


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Astraltar

Senior Member

06-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by KuzAnn View Post
Noo, don't do it! You have so much to live for! *Attempts epic save*

And by the way... Has anyone else read Nocturne's judgement recently? I did just today and I must say, it does not look good for Valoran if he ever gets loose again. O____O Apparently he eats magic and can attack your very soul. That makes him sound even more terrifying than what his bio makes him out to be. And he's been around for a very long time as well, a predator specifically geared toward feeding off sentient creatures. You might even call him immortal for how long he's persisted and the fact that we don't know how to permanently dispose of him. Another thing to note is he can still get at your mind even in his physical form and while you're awake.

And this makes me even more sad that they're no longer doing judgements for champions. We learn so much about them during the judgements, we get a peak into the champion's inner workings and come out with a better understanding of their motivations and nature, I can only hope that whatever they come up with to replace them is just as informative if not more.
*is saved in an epic fashion*

I would read the judgment and make an informative comment, but I am about to eat cookies.
Tomorrow, maybe.