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Some simple Volibear playability thingies

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Iklo

Senior Member

01-13-2013

Bump


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JimMaru

Recruiter

01-14-2013

@WabbitMonster

If the stack requirement was raised on his W he would be outright weak. One of the problems with him is that now he is too slow to make trades because his main trade in lane is a bite from Frenzy. If you try to use Q and E for trade you will be Out of Mana very fast.
Most people would be able to come to him hit him hard and just disengage somehow without being traded if he had to stack even more his W.
Say, Jayce can poke him, jump at him, attack him and blow him away pretty fast with a hammer combo.
I believe that making no stack requirement but increasing the scaling with each stack can be a great buff to his W, but considering his W is already the best skill he has and gives him a lot of stats AND a great execute AND the ability to deal a lot of damage while building tank AND has a "perfect" synergy with his ult, his W really doesn't deserve any buffs...

The problem with him is that everyone now wants assassins and everyone is going for the new Mobility Creep, Volibear needs fights to last long to be able to output all his base damage and after that he is just useless with huge cooldowns...
His E is great but only because of utility, and most of it all about the fear that reduces the damage he takes in lane and jungle (now that indomitable doesn't exist). Both his E and Q aren't worth leveling after lv 1. The scaling slow is just a way to make it seem like leveling his skills will make some difference.

That's another reason why he is binary, he only needs ONE skill leveled to do everything he does (okay, his ult can count too). All the rest just help him set up or stick a bit longer on his enemies. Most champions get damage while leveling his skills, the damage on E and Q for Volibear is symbolic, he has all his damage on two skills, so when he levels W it's as strong as if someone else was leveling 2 skills at the same time, for example.

That's why people are suggesting to maybe even low his base damage, but make other skills more useful. He can't be like Kah'zix and then some people discover that they should be leveling other skills because they are more useful or do more damage, or like Ez that you can change skills depending on the build or anything like that. He has absurds amounts of damage on W and R and training wheels on E and Q to be able to use it and that's it. He has only that one trick and it HAS to work if he gets to his enemies or he is just useless, so you get a champion that is either broken OP or easily shut down depending on the game.

EDIT: Also remember, everyone now is an AD assassin, a champion that needs to stay for 12 seconds auto-attacking to be able to pull his execute off just won't work nowadays.


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Iklo

Senior Member

01-15-2013

Bump


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Ophirr

Senior Member

01-15-2013

I'm actually really happy where volibear is right now... or atleast my ELO is ;D. I find that he's an incredibly strong laner, who can turn into having an incredibly strong late game (4k hp bear running into your team, flipping your adc, and possibly killing them 1v1 because of all of his armor/ult/execute? Unless it's Vayne T.T)


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JimMaru

Recruiter

01-15-2013

Or you're against a black cleaver 4 AD comp?


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Iklo

Senior Member

01-16-2013

Quote:
JimMaru:
Or you're against a black cleaver 4 AD comp?


I don't build Black Cleaver very often.


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Iklo

Senior Member

01-16-2013

I was thinking about Voli alot today and I realized that maybe the reason he is a hybrid damage dealing champion is to buff his early game, not his late game. Voli is all about gaining an advantage over his opponent, think about his passive, his w, and his ap ratios on his e and r. His mix of damage makes his damage slightly fall off when the enemy comes into lanes with flat armor seals because his e and r still deal a good amount of damage. The reason why he doesn't have amazing ap ratios like Cho or Mal is because his damage is mixed and based on the flat damage values from his abilities rather than all ap ratios. If Riot were to change his values to all ad values then his early game wouldn't really be nerfed greatly, but it would make his damage a consistent value and easier to counter in lane. The main reason for supporting an all ad ratio kit is to improve his mid and late game ratios so he can deal a good amount of damage consistently. I am just stating both sides of the argument because I think both have strong points to consider.

Summary: Mixed damage = better early game up until mid game
Consistent damage (all ad ratios)= better mid to late game


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JimMaru

Recruiter

01-16-2013

Yes, volibear's mixed damage is to give him the early game advantage of being "unresisted".
It's like Riven, you could get a chain vest and then she wouldn't bully you in lane anymore because all she has is physical damage.
Darius on the other hand is considered OP, Morello himself if I'm not wrong (could have been another rioter) said that his main problem is that he deals all 3 types of damage, Physical, true and magic damage. It may not seem much, but the bleed damage early hurts a lot.
Now, you can't buy resistances to actually shutdown Volibear's damage, he gets free AS buff from W and with his Ult he will out DPS you. He will also be tankier than you because he buys health and has 30% more health because of his passive.
Not only this, great Execute that scales on your missing health and his bonus health.
Yeah, Volibear can't be outdamaged between level 6 to 11.
Later, everyone will have some defenses, all you have is base damage that doesn't scale because if you build damage it will be worthless. So yeah, you fall down when it comes to damage late game.

But I DON'T think that's a problem in the sense that he should be on-par to other Top Laner's scaling.
I said it before and I will say again: Volibear fits a niche. He is the ONLY AoE bruiser in the game.
You get him on the team comp expecting him not to be awesome 1v1 lategame, but to be that one guy in the game that can deal over 1500 damage to EVERYONE in the enemy team while attacking the tank or something like this.
The only PROBLEM that does exist with this behavior in the game is that it makes him binary.
He RIDICULOUSLY strong in a all-in 1v1 early game to the point that you have to do very bad not to get a kill in that situation, and after you get the kill you start snowballing out of control because there is no counterplay to that IF the enemy is countered by Volibear (irelia, riven, jax, renek, etc...)

That's the whole "binary" thing all over again, now just with the "falling late game" argument, but that's because you have too much AoE damage and early game since you're on a solo lane you don't deal that damage to other champions, so it's okay if you're broken everywhere else early game.
He ONLY has BASE DAMAGE and that's tuned to be STRONG early game to get him fed and then WEAK (moderate, I mean) late game, because he will be getting the ult proc on other champions.

It's perfectly reasonable and very well done by Volty to make him have a niche like this and scale perfectly with how the game proceeds but... It still makes Volibear binary and with few really good build options. His itemzation its terrible and he can't actually build "damage".
If you fix his scaling to scale on AD or whatever, he will have to lose the AoE effect or have it much weaker, which is basically removing his niche in the game...


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Exsanguinated

Member

01-16-2013

I don't know but every Voliball I see, even if they support, end up 12-0 and own the entire game. screw their ADC they da bear!

Not saying he's OP, but it's quite akward how every Voliball just plain rips trough games, with such ease... maybe it's a coincidence, but he seems stronk. On many occasions.


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Iklo

Senior Member

01-16-2013

What about Hecarim? He is an AoE bruiser jungler who snowballs perfectly into late game and can even carry a whole team by ulting into the adc and bursting them before they can do much. However, Hecarim's early game is his weakest point where as Volibear's strongest is early game.